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Make 3 rigged games, and you can get to Level 41: 9/29/2015 15:50:06

inquisitor
Level 56
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How did he manage to do? Here is how:
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=9543157

It's a rigged game, but it may be hard for the average Joe to see through the creator's dirty tricks. People may not understand what B:1 means, especially if they haven't used custom scenario before. B means slot B. 1 means 1 unit. That means only his alt can capture the star. Others have no army to start with so they are stuck at their original spot.

Note: This trick could apply to any map, not just lottery.



This is his account:
https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=6450215362

Just 3 rigged games (I saw him using the same trick before), and he advanced from Level 1 to Level 41, and he is not the only one. There are many others who are doing basically the same every day.

Is it fair to others who earn points in an honest and hard way, when someone can easily cheat to advance to Level 41 with 3 rigged games?

The fix is very simple. I have talked about it before. When will the developer react and fix it?
(For those who missed it, I will talk again in the next post)



Edited 9/29/2015 16:11:45
Make 3 rigged games, and you can get to Level 41: 9/29/2015 15:50:19

inquisitor
Level 56
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To be a ranked game, it has to be potentially fair. And the system will force a game to be set as practice when it is potentially exploitable. (Note: A practice game means it does not award points and achievements).

But let's take a look at this:
Games with AI - must be practice
Games with uneven teams - must be practice
Games with exploitable custom scenarios - can be ranked

It is a big exploit. How come the system could leave the last ones behind? That's why we have a case where a cheater can get to Level 41 with 3 rigged games only.

To make things worse, they disguise them as normal games to trick people, and the system is encouraging them to keep going by rewarding them with points now. I have to say it works very well. There are always enough prey to fall for that, even players with high levels. That's why it is very profitable.

Think about the gaming experience people have after being tricked in this way. I believe some new players leave because of that. It is not good when their first impression is Warlight is full of cheaters and scammers. We must do something to maintain the health of this community.

I'm seeing rigged games essentially every day, Fizzer. I think you are so concerned about fairness (and it is the main reason why you removed nearly all luck in ladder templates recently, right?), but how come you could leave such a big exploit behind? Is it fair to others who earn points in an honest and hard way?

Edited 9/29/2015 15:51:22
Make 3 rigged games, and you can get to Level 41: 9/29/2015 15:50:32

inquisitor
Level 56
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The developer can do something, and it is very easy. Just force all those games to set as practice only. Problems are solved once and for all.

I have made a uservoice. Please support it. The community is better without rigged games (by custom scenarios). Thank you.
https://warlight.uservoice.com/forums/77051-warlight-features/suggestions/9973461-please-fix-exploits-which-make-use-of-custom-scena

Vote if you can.
Leave a comment saying "support", if you have no vote left.



Edited 9/29/2015 16:07:56
Make 3 rigged games, and you can get to Level 41: 9/29/2015 15:50:55

inquisitor
Level 56
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Perhaps someone may say it is their faults for not checking settings carefully. Yes they are careless, but does it make it right to cheat people in this way, even less let them keep cheating the innocent? There is news that a conman preyed on the elderly and conned them out of thousands of dollars. Would you say they are just stupid enough to fall for that, we shouldn't help them, just let the conman keep conning people? Of course not.

Perhaps someone may say a game with a custom scenario can be a good game, so you should let the creator decide whether this game is ranked or practice. I never say they are always bad games. You may design a good game with uneven teams or AI too, so why can't they set as ranked? It is not whether it can be a good game. It is because they are expliotable in nature. A custom scenario is also exploitable in nature, not to say more exploitable than the first two types.
Make 3 rigged games, and you can get to Level 41: 9/29/2015 15:58:49

inquisitor
Level 56
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(reserved for later use)

Edited 9/29/2015 15:59:09
Make 3 rigged games, and you can get to Level 41: 9/29/2015 16:02:50


MightySpeck (a Koala) 
Level 58
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i only have one question.

how to tell a rigged game from a not rigged game?

(also how did he lose that one game?)

Edited 9/29/2015 16:04:40
Make 3 rigged games, and you can get to Level 41: 9/29/2015 16:03:43


hedja 
Level 58
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thousands of dollars

Not the same as some points on warlight
Make 3 rigged games, and you can get to Level 41: 9/29/2015 16:05:11


hedja 
Level 58
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Check the custom scenario (i.e. which starts are op) and if some are much stronger than others then don't join
Make 3 rigged games, and you can get to Level 41: 9/29/2015 16:06:04


Bayern München is the best!
Level 60
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How did he made a CS?
Make 3 rigged games, and you can get to Level 41: 9/29/2015 16:11:08

inquisitor
Level 56
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i only have one question.

how to tell a rigged game from a not rigged game?


Do you mean the 3 games of the player? Well I saw him using the same dirty trick before.
Make 3 rigged games, and you can get to Level 41: 9/29/2015 16:18:22


wakanarai 
Level 58
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How did he made a CS?


just check the link in the first post and you see that someone made the template for him (both accounts are already suspended i see)
Make 3 rigged games, and you can get to Level 41: 9/29/2015 16:19:48

inquisitor
Level 56
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thousands of dollars


Not the same as some points on warlight


So what do you mean? So it makes them right to cheat because no money is involved? And we shouldn't do anything to stop them?

I know the case is much less serious, but the same concept applies. Victim blaming is not right. It does not make the wrongdoer right because the victim is not clever enough.

Other games will ban players who cheat, and have an anti-cheat system in place. Warlight has an anti-cheat system (like games with uneven teams / AI will be set as practice). Prevention is better than cure. It is just an easy fix on games which exploit custom scenarios to cheat. Just set them as practice, like what it does to other potentially exploitable games.

Edited 9/29/2015 16:29:12
Make 3 rigged games, and you can get to Level 41: 9/29/2015 16:24:10


Sephiroth 
Level 60
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as fizzer agreed in his livestream, custom scenario games should be flagged as "practice"

there's no downside to it
Make 3 rigged games, and you can get to Level 41: 9/29/2015 16:25:40


THE PLAGUE
Level 60
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inquisitor you are great. i fully support you for the good of the game. Keep up the good work .... one day it will be noticed at a higher level and hopefully resolved.
Make 3 rigged games, and you can get to Level 41: 9/29/2015 16:31:36


Bayern München is the best!
Level 60
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just check the link in the first post and you see that someone made the template for him (both accounts are already suspended i see)

I cant, „the requested game doesnt exict“
Make 3 rigged games, and you can get to Level 41: 9/29/2015 16:31:38


hedja 
Level 58
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You are likening the 2, when in reality they are completely different.

Also all you need to do is report the 2 accounts on their profiles and then be done with it (they are now banned) I do not see much of a reason to make a thread about it. However that isn't to say I'm not grateful for him being found out and eventually banned.
Make 3 rigged games, and you can get to Level 41: 9/29/2015 16:37:20


Vormulak
Level 53
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lol more dumbasses too lazy to check settings. Again they got what was coming to them well done cheater very subtle.
Make 3 rigged games, and you can get to Level 41: 9/29/2015 16:46:12

inquisitor
Level 56
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just check the link in the first post and you see that someone made the template for him (both accounts are already suspended i see)


Ar! It is the first time I see an action taken on the cheaters, and so quickly. What a surprise!
I reported quite a few in the past (making rigged games, nearly all with custom scenarios), but it appears no action is being taken (the developer never replies, and the cheaters are still around).
Make 3 rigged games, and you can get to Level 41: 9/29/2015 16:49:25


Vormulak
Level 53
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you goyyim are idiots anyway, literally no way he could have hosted the match.
Make 3 rigged games, and you can get to Level 41: 9/29/2015 17:10:51

inquisitor
Level 56
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I've never seen a cheater getting banned by making rigged games before.

I guess it is because this cheater went too far. First he used his main to help his alt to cheat. Second, his alt has cheated its way to level 41 with 3 rigged games only (cheating too much, otherwise bearable LOL).

Tips: If you want to cheat and get off at the same time, do it slowly. You will still be very safe (well until the developer changes his stance and take those issues seriously ;-) Hahaha... just kidding)
Make 3 rigged games, and you can get to Level 41: 9/29/2015 17:24:41

inquisitor
Level 56
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as fizzer agreed in his livestream, custom scenario games should be flagged as "practice"

there's no downside to it


Great! It was so laggy last time and I could hardly hear his response.

This thread is still good to remind him to take those issues seriously. I hope he could fix it as soon as possible. :-)

inquisitor you are great. i fully support you for the good of the game. Keep up the good work .... one day it will be noticed at a higher level and hopefully resolved.


Thanks a lot. :-D
Make 3 rigged games, and you can get to Level 41: 9/29/2015 17:29:42


MightySpeck (a Koala) 
Level 58
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I meant if fizzer made a way to tell if a game was rigged or not how would it work?
Make 3 rigged games, and you can get to Level 41: 9/29/2015 17:31:00


hedja 
Level 58
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He wouldn't, just make all custom scenario practise, even if they are or aren't rigged.
Make 3 rigged games, and you can get to Level 41: 9/29/2015 18:22:05

inquisitor
Level 56
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You are likening the 2, when in reality they are completely different.


I'm not sure why you are so concerned about the example. To clarify I only use this example to illustrate the point that it does not make the wrongdoer right because the victim is not clever enough. This example is never the main point. I never say both cases are 90% similar, are equally serious blah blah blah...

Also all you need to do is report the 2 accounts on their profiles and then be done with it (they are now banned) I do not see much of a reason to make a thread about it. However that isn't to say I'm not grateful for him being found out and eventually banned.


Well but you missed out the very reason why they get banned - I made a thread about it. ;-)
(OK I will use an example to explain again, although you will probably argue about the subtlety again)

If you just send email to the government, the government is going to ignore you. But if you organize a demonstration with thousands of people protesting on the street, it is more likely the government will respond and take action.
(yep I know a game site is not the same as the government, but I hope you get the points)

Having said that, I do not mean to blame the developer. I realize it is a one-man job. He must be very busy.

Report is not a good solution. Why?

1. Rigged games keep showing up every day. I'm much much much much much far from catching all of them.
2. I need to spend time to police the open games. I'm actually wasting time to scan each open game, when I'm not actually looking for a new game to join. I don't think I will do it continuously. Personally it does not affect or bother me. I'm good enough not to fall for them. I'm still doing this solely for the good of the game/community.
3. It takes time to write a report (more than you might expect).
4. It takes time for the developer to read and understand the report, and take action. It is understandable the developer must understand the case fully before taking an action.
5. Therefore many will be left unprocessed since the developer is busy.

Why is a fix better?

1. It takes a few lines of codes to implement. (I could imagine it is just a basic if statement syntax)
2. The effort is one-time.
3. Those rigged games (with custom scenarios) will be gone once and for all.
4. No more time have to be wasted on them. So good!
5. As always, prevention is better than cure. ;-)
Make 3 rigged games, and you can get to Level 41: 9/29/2015 18:42:05

inquisitor
Level 56
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lol more dumbasses too lazy to check settings. Again they got what was coming to them well done cheater very subtle.


Not really. It is a bit hard to see through the tricks. Not everyone understands every aspect of the game.

It will be very sad if custom scenarios become a byword for cheating, and people's first reaction is to avoid them like plague. We'd better do something before custom scenarios get rotten so badly.
Make 3 rigged games, and you can get to Level 41: 9/29/2015 18:47:27


hedja 
Level 58
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Don't waste your own time - people who join or see a rigged game should report the creator.
For report just link the game and say this is a custom scenario with an unfair distribution.
Fizzer reads all reports - he wouldn't leave them unprocessed just because he is busy.

I'm not against making them practice games - I am for that.
Make 3 rigged games, and you can get to Level 41: 9/29/2015 18:48:46

TBest 
Level 60
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Fizzer's AMA, in case you missed it :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkuLbfKGa5s

1. Cheaters' especially those who rigg games ARE punished. They often loose points + get a warning. Repeated offense eventually leads to a suspension. Only a suspension is visible to the public.
2. Players don't get banned from someone making a thread, please report them and INCLUDE EVIDENCE! (reporting them from in-game gives the game link,)
3. ^Don't write to much in the report. Simply Rigging games+ link is fine.
4. Moderators review the report, Fizzer then reviews the reports were a mod believes action is needed.
5. ^ I don't think Fizzer use to much time on the reports himself, but there may be some delay in the processing of a report, due to the 2-step system. Right now however, all reports are processed in a timely manner.



As for the fix, they will just find another way to rig the games. (Overridden, hard to find bonuses + NLC, boot time trix, negative sanction etc. Afraid it doesn't solve the core problem, players not checking/understanding settings.)

Edited 9/29/2015 18:51:32
Make 3 rigged games, and you can get to Level 41: 9/29/2015 18:56:02

inquisitor
Level 56
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I meant if fizzer made a way to tell if a game was rigged or not how would it work?


No need. Games with custom scenario are highly exploitable in nature, and those games are not going to be fair. Even if the creator does not intend to cheat, it is likely the custom scenario is not well designed so not everyone has an equal chance of winning. Some spots are potentially better than others.

It is just like the cases in games with uneven teams and AI. Those games are not fair and exploitable in nature, so all of those games must be set as practice.
Make 3 rigged games, and you can get to Level 41: 9/29/2015 19:06:01


Empire of Kilos
Level 32
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IDC about the fact he's rigging games. The thing I'm steamed about is that he's trying to become Supreme leader! Gen.Numbnuts in the only Supreme Leader of Warlight!
Make 3 rigged games, and you can get to Level 41: 9/29/2015 19:23:04

inquisitor
Level 56
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Oh I see. It would be great if they send a reply after they processed a report, a general message like the following is good enough:
"Thank you for your report. Your report is read and a proper action is taken."

One reason why I feel some reports are left unprocessed is because I see cheaters who have been reported are still cheating in the same way. Perhaps they are just bold enough to ignore the warning.

Sure one fix is not going to solve all problems, but at least it solves a good portion of them. After all custom scenarios should be set as practice anyway, not just for the rigged game issues.
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