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Pick Strategy Case Study: What are your picks?: 9/25/2015 07:44:50

inquisitor
Level 56
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I found that we lack any pick strategy guide in Warlight. It is an important part of it, but no one has written a guide yet. Why? It might be hard to write a guide as there are many variables involved, and different playing styles may justify the choices of different picks. Still I think we should do something to fill up the gap.

Let's present some real cases (strategic 1v1 template, 3 picks) from time to time, and encourage people to review and offer their opinions, so others could learn from them. Feel free to join if you think you can contribute and share your knowledge.

Fizzer, please sticky this thread if you think it is a good idea. Thank you. ^__^



2015-09-25
It is our first case today. What are your picks and why?

Please don't just give your pick choices without any explanation. Share your thinking and reasons behind. Thank you for your participation. :-)

Pick Strategy Case Study: What are your picks?: 9/25/2015 08:00:45


indibob 
Level 61
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As someone who regularly loses game on picks, finding most often that my income lags behind others. I thought i would post what i would pick and try to see where im going wrong from subsequent comments.
I think i would pick

1. Panama
2 great plains
3 Libya
4 Malaysia
5 Tura
6 Afghanistan

No real idea why i make those picks and thats probably the problem lol....
Comments and help requested!
Pick Strategy Case Study: What are your picks?: 9/25/2015 08:11:38

inquisitor
Level 56
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(reserved)
Pick Strategy Case Study: What are your picks?: 9/25/2015 08:34:30

Widzisz • apex 
Level 60
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Threads like this one appear randomly from time to time. There is no picking guide because there are too many different factors that determine what's good on a given map.

In your example, wasteland prevent many good bonuses. Most ideas here (Australia + Indonesia, Central Russia, Africa) are easy to counter, and depending who I play I would expect different counters. However, there is one idea I like the most, and which I would use against everyone except for professor dead piggy.

I forgot how this strategy was called, but one of the most tempting ideas here for me is to pick Canada, West US and East US as 1,2 and 3. First capture Canada in 2nd turn, then East US in 4th, and if there is no opponent in Central America I should be able to capture West US turn 5. If someone have CA it get's a bit tricky, but I think it's still open situation.

Alternative, maybe even better picks for the same idea is to make 1 CA, 2 East US, 3 West US. CA turn 2, East US turn 3 (with some luck) West US turn 4 or 5.

Picks 4-6 are in both cases around Africa or Australia, depending who I play. It's not the best strategy, but least likely to be countered.

Another, more typical idea that I still need to think through is 11 in 2 turns, meaning Central America, Southeast Asia and Middle East. If there is someone in Indonesia I capture CA fast with constantly applying pressure on enemy. If no one picked Indonesia, I capture both +3 in 2 turns, turn 3 check Central Russia and march towards Africa from Central America, covering all most popular ideas I think. Picks 4-6 around Africa.

Edited 9/25/2015 08:38:56
Pick Strategy Case Study: What are your picks?: 9/25/2015 10:14:35


Sephiroth 
Level 60
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I like how safe CR is
Pick Strategy Case Study: What are your picks?: 9/25/2015 10:28:49


[WM] Gnuffone 
Level 60
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CR ant SA. counterpickstyle ;)
Pick Strategy Case Study: What are your picks?: 9/25/2015 11:44:44


Latnox 
Level 60
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CR would be my #1 choice as well. This is super safe bonus and have good income/territory ratio.

With #2 I'd for CA as it is also safe (at least that's what I'd assume).

My #3 - #6 would be in Africa. If both East and West Africa are not wastelanded, than you should have control over this region (maybe with #6 I'd go for SEA)

This strategy gives me nice control over whole map (Asia from CR, America and Australia from CA, and Africa from Africa :)

I'd also have nice chances against all mentioned before scenarios:

- Aus+Indo - counter from Hawaii and expansion in Asia

- Canada triple pick - Direct counter on west US and whole US/Canada area

- Gnuffone SA counter - well I'd definitely be surprised by seeing him there, but I'd still have safe income in Africa/Russia (depending of who'd get 1st pick)

- Triple pick Africa (maybe not mentioned before, but still very common among low lvl players). Opponent would be stack in Africa, and i having Russia + SEA + CA and full intel, could expand freely and surprise him. If I have pick in Africa, than it's even easier to win.


That is my first idea about this distribution. Also this is how I do my analyze before making picks.

Edited 9/25/2015 11:57:38
Pick Strategy Case Study: What are your picks?: 9/25/2015 12:58:43

Widzisz • apex 
Level 60
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CR ant SA

Are you sure you meant Central Russia? Not East Russia or West China?

Edited 9/25/2015 13:04:32
Pick Strategy Case Study: What are your picks?: 9/25/2015 14:41:09


Zoya the Destroya 
Level 59
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If I can find a way to get a bonus in the first turn, I'll usually go for that unless I think that my opponent will pick something nearby that I can't quickly squash. You could probably get a bonus first turn in West Africa but if anything goes wrong, it'll be hard to recover. I might go for Australia. You could get that in two turns and it's a larger bonus. Then I'd probably go through Indonesia and shoot over to North America. There's a good chance that someone is in N. America or Central so you could probably take them. :-)
Pick Strategy Case Study: What are your picks?: 9/25/2015 15:42:41

inquisitor
Level 56
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There is no picking guide because there are too many different factors that determine what's good on a given map.


Yep! I see how broad this topic is. That's why we have this thread. A good start is half of success.

I will try my best to keep it alive and update this thread continuously. I hope this thread can help to gather more information and knowledge on this topic and help people to learn how to do good picks.

I forgot how this strategy was called, but one of the most tempting ideas here for me is to pick Canada, West US and East US as 1,2 and 3. First capture Canada in 2nd turn, then East US in 4th, and if there is no opponent in Central America I should be able to capture West US turn 5. If someone have CA it get's a bit tricky, but I think it's still open situation.

Alternative, maybe even better picks for the same idea is to make 1 CA, 2 East US, 3 West US. CA turn 2, East US turn 3 (with some luck) West US turn 4 or 5.


But US and Canada have poor income/territory ratio. Why do you still want to triple pick them?
The second plan looks better. Central America has good income/territory ratio.

Edited 9/25/2015 15:50:33
Pick Strategy Case Study: What are your picks?: 9/25/2015 16:03:33


Buns157 
Level 68
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1) Central Russia
2) CA
3) Aus
4) Indo
5) WA
6) North Africa

Not that sure on the indo aus combo, but I would play with it anyway. Especially since getting CR and CA is unlikely.
Pick Strategy Case Study: What are your picks?: 9/25/2015 16:26:48


Kenny • apex 
Level 59
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1. Panama
2 great plains
3 Libya
4 Malaysia
5 Tura
6 Afghanistan


1. Okay
2. Inefficient Bonus.
3. Inefficient Bonus.
4. 3-turn 4.
5. Okay
6. Inefficient Bonus + it's 3-turns.

The reason why there's no pick strategy guide is that there's rules, but we break the rules all the time.

For example, I could say a big rule to picking is to have the most income within 2-3 turns. However, this may not be an efficient pickstyle depending on the map or your opponent.

Anyways going to talk to you Indibob:

You said you have no idea why you picked what. I don't either. I will repeat the rule of thumb I said above, it's generally best to pick in a way that you have the most income on the map at turn 2-3. If you can finish your first 3 bonuses before your opponent, and then threaten his income, you will generally win. If we're focusing on high income in 2 turns, then Indo+Aus allows a 2-turn 5 bonus, giving you 10 income. You could also do Middle East + Southeastern Asia + Central America, a 2-turn 6 income generating pick combo. (Take both SEA and CA at the same time). You can pick for safety and map control like Latnox says, and just beat your opponent in the information game.

Now onto what I would pick.

I would be thinking about this option:

1. CA
2. SEA
3. Mid East
4. West Africa
5. North Africa
6. South Africa

In this scenario I feel flexible. If my opponent is the double pick Aus, I think I have really good control over how he plays. If my opponent picks like Latnox, then I get a quick income advantage and have to immediately capitalize my lead. I think I lose if he gets East Africa, but if he gets the West Africa combo I feel pretty good. If I miss CA then I think it's a brawl situation in which I can probably eliminate him from Africa given I spend less to get my bonus in SEA.

Edited 9/25/2015 16:27:16
Pick Strategy Case Study: What are your picks?: 9/25/2015 16:43:10

Widzisz • apex 
Level 60
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But US and Canada have poor income/territory ratio. Why do you still want to triple pick them?
The second plan looks better. Central America has good income/territory ratio.

Yes, idea wtih CA as #1 is much better, not sure why initially I picked Canada instead.

Triple around North America might have poor income/territory ratio, but 1) you get safety, as there are not that many easy ways to break it, 2) it is also rarely used and therefore rarely expected, and 3) you can use leftovers from each bonus to finish the others, which make it somewhat similar in terms of armies required to capture to the good bonuses. Also, because of point 2 I think enemy will waste some time trying to find me, letting me capture all bonuses and I believe have income advantage when we finally met. I have two main routes to attack, Africa through SA and Indonesia through Hawaii. I also have Canada and later Greenland for safe capture. So I'm not that afraid to leave rest for enemy, many bonuses are wasted afterall.
Pick Strategy Case Study: What are your picks?: 9/25/2015 16:44:36


TBest 
Level 60
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"I found that we lack any pick strategy guide in Warlight."

That is actually kind of false, picking guides do exist. Both M'Hunters and GG guides covers it.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NyhCpIQKShAbWGXicO_ph9whV_UyMS-3a7_re0C7R8Y/edit#
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B024HXqzvoGCejhhajNFa1ZOVlE/edit

Edited 9/25/2015 16:46:07
Pick Strategy Case Study: What are your picks?: 9/25/2015 17:15:45


Hostile
Level 58
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Africa bad.

North America less efficient.

East Asia is complicated.


***


Central America and East Russia are best bonuses.
Other bonuses are pretty much counters in my opinion / or support picks.

Safe and quite good coverage.


All it matters is what you do with 3rd/4th/5th/6th


Counter to East Asia is Caucasus.

Counter to Central America is South America or West Africa.

***

You do not get an ALL advantage with wasteland pick like Caucasus but you can see if India is double or not.

---

As for Africa triple, there is not much difference from double India. It is important to expand into SA first turn to counter Central America. Otherwise, you will have to go through two turns doing nothing except useless *North Africa*.

Europe counter is possible. With this strategy, your goal is to break CA early and eliminate it to expand into US/Hawai. You will gain some positional advantage I believe.

Edited 9/25/2015 17:23:44
Pick Strategy Case Study: What are your picks?: 9/25/2015 17:24:32


Master Atom ◆Elite◆
Level 60
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Triple pick central russia, east russia,and west china. Let 4/5/6 be random
Pick Strategy Case Study: What are your picks?: 9/25/2015 17:57:58


Min34 
Level 60
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I`d go
1: CR, seeing as it is quite safe and good income
2: CA, also safe, counters possible triple pick in America and is close to Indonesia or even Africa if really needed.
3: West Africa: I feel like being in africa is needed as it is wasteland-free
4: Egypt: To assure pressence in Africa
5: SEA: Possible counter to CR (although not that strong of a counter) and possible that the rest of that region is free.
6: Libya: Could`ve switched this with SEA, but I feel like 4,5 in Egypt/Libya is a bit dangerous as the scenario of me getting Egypt and Libya, with an enemy in WA might not be good (unless they don`t know you are also in Africa, but I think they should expect it)
Pick Strategy Case Study: What are your picks?: 9/25/2015 18:15:03


indibob 
Level 61
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thank you Lolowut,
Having compared my picks with your comments i see that one of my main faults is that i tend to be attracted to positional picks (Great plains touching both US areas and Canada and Libya touching the 3 African areas.)
I need to spend more time considering the ease of bonuses and not rush into intuitive picks
Thans again for taking the time to comment
Pick Strategy Case Study: What are your picks?: 9/26/2015 01:22:15

inquisitor
Level 56
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@Sephiroth
I like how safe CR is


Just wonder what your other picks are. Would you mind telling us? :-)

@[WM] Gnuffone
CR ant SA. counterpickstyle ;)


What if you couldn't get Central Russia? You will have no base. Is it really a good idea?
What are your 4-6th picks?
Pick Strategy Case Study: What are your picks?: 9/26/2015 03:11:12

inquisitor
Level 56
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What do all of you think about these pick strategies?

Triple pick West China
1. Central Russia 2. Southeast Asia 3. West China

Two double picks
1. Australia 2. Indonesia 3. Southeast Asia 4. Middle East

Good or bad? Which one do you prefer?
Please leave your comments.
Pick Strategy Case Study: What are your picks?: 9/26/2015 03:28:47


Master Ryiro 
Level 62
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Triple pick West China
1. Central Russia 2. Southeast Asia 3. West China


very bad picks,you don't get any bonus in 2 turns and your expansion will be cripled after turn 3

Two double picks
1. Australia 2. Indonesia 3. Southeast Asia 4. Middle East


if you want to go for australia bonus,its better if you pick indonasia first and australia as 2,if you do other way around,you're in bad position
southeast asia and middle east picks are bad too
Pick Strategy Case Study: What are your picks?: 9/26/2015 03:33:18


Master Ryiro 
Level 62
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i would go for
1) Central Russia
2) CA
3) Indo
4) Aus
5) WA
6) South Africa
Pick Strategy Case Study: What are your picks?: 9/26/2015 03:42:57

Ryzys
Level 58
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@Ryiro: Why pick in a bonus with a wasteland?
I would have gone:
1) CR
2) CA
3) Indo
4) WA
5) EA
6) Aus
Pick Strategy Case Study: What are your picks?: 9/26/2015 04:13:34


Smithereens
Level 27
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Are there any hardcore mathematicians around that have calculated the fastest possible expanse and derived the best possible start locations?
Pick Strategy Case Study: What are your picks?: 9/26/2015 05:05:45


Wenyun 
Level 59
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1. CR
2. C Am.
3. GL (3-turn, but extremely safe)
4. Indo
5. Aus
6. Ant (6th pick means opponent's in my 4/5, so...)

Greenland should probably be an Africa pick, considering it's slow. My worst set of picks would probably be 2-3-5 with the opponent in S Am.
Pick Strategy Case Study: What are your picks?: 9/26/2015 12:09:58


professor dead piggy 
Level 59
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Isnt this thread irrelevent? strategic 1v1 is gone now.

Edited 9/26/2015 12:10:15
Pick Strategy Case Study: What are your picks?: 9/26/2015 12:11:13


master of desaster 
Level 65
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yes it is. strategy is no longer a Topic in warlight. Counting is the new strategy!
Pick Strategy Case Study: What are your picks?: 9/26/2015 12:14:31


Cata Cauda
Level 58
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Yep, WL is now ice-cold-calculation. No strategy anymore...
Pick Strategy Case Study: What are your picks?: 9/26/2015 12:17:55

Qi 
Level 55
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Count Gnuffone is going to dominate at this new counting ladder.

One army, ahahahaha!
Two armies, ahahahaha!
Three armies, ahahahaha!
Four armies, ahahahaha!
Five armies, ahahahaha!
Ad infinitum

Here's HHH (he's blue) and Count Szeweningen (he's black) in their 2v2 ladder team chat:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l7KbMVdN7E

Edited 9/26/2015 12:20:29
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