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Crap Countries Did: 2015-09-20 13:21:02


Жұқтыру
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Britain - Irish potato famine.
Crap Countries Did: 2015-09-20 13:36:01


Min34 
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Poland went into space.


I Lol'ed
Crap Countries Did: 2015-09-20 19:14:13


AlternateHistoryGuy
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'Great Leap Forward' China in 1958-1962. 45 million people dead because of one man's mistakes.
Crap Countries Did: 2015-09-20 21:38:39


Belgian Gentleman
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Approximately between 5 000 - 20 000 protestants (and suspects) were killed. Do some research before you flip out with your crazy numbers.

Let's talk about congo...

Therefore there were a lot more worser things than the congo genocide. Leopold was not one of the bloodiest man in history but certainly one of the greediest.

To give it you on paper Belgians did not kill in millions in Congo. Congo at that time was a faraway isolated stretched massive land surrounded by wilderness with no knowledge of the invention of the weel nor advanced agricultural methods. Therefore its population was targetted at a million in the beginning of the 19th century. Belgium did not actually helped for a significant drop in Congo's population but did just the opposite as you would expect. The birth rate of Congo exploded when Belgians exposed them to better medical treatment & hospitals.

The congo genocide is indeed sad but its casualities are not to be counted in millions as African supremacists would say. That the deaths of the Congo free state would rank up to 10 million was just to be found in Joseph Conrads book Heart of Darkness. That number is just too exaggerately represented and was part of the US congo free state propagenda where America tried to accuse Belgian autorities of non-humanitarian actions in priority to set up anti colonialist ideas.

Critic: this propagenda image of joseph conrads book leaned upon inaccurately represantive numbers on no reliable sources as Conrad never visited the free state. He had a stereotypical view of congo in front of its eyes. The numbers of 10-15 million dead congolese and 20% population drop were never proved.

Congo genocide real death toll is estimated between 100 000 and 200 000 lives in a timespan of 35 years. Belgians were using the same torturing technique originated from the Arabs and the king of belgium Leopold II became filthy rich as heck.

Thereafter I believe that Arabian sultans did more crap in 1000 years than we Belgians did in 35 years.
Crap Countries Did: 2015-09-20 21:46:22


Angry Koala
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England and Burgundy for burning Jeanne D'Arc!
Crap Countries Did: 2015-09-20 23:30:38


AlternateHistoryGuy
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Ooooh buuuurrrnn....literally :P
Crap Countries Did: 2015-09-21 00:44:52


Жұқтыру
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Approximately between 5 000 - 20 000 protestants (and suspects) were killed. Do some research before you flip out with your crazy numbers.

Let's talk about congo...

Therefore there were a lot more worser things than the congo genocide. Leopold was not one of the bloodiest man in history but certainly one of the greediest.


Don't even try "distractions". Humans did not have knowledge of the wheel nor agriculture for thousands of years, but Congo is such a lush land that it does not matter, just pick what you want from the ground, trees or moving. There were at least 10 million in the Congo in 1885 according to most estimates. Or perhaps we should say "Belgium does not have much great food-growing land at all, more an industrial country, they were always starving. What, they colonised Congo? Ha, no, they are too busy starving to build shipyards or boats."

The congo genocide is indeed sad but its casualities are not to be counted in millions as African supremacists would say. That the deaths of the Congo free state would rank up to 10 million was just to be found in Joseph Conrads book Heart of Darkness. That number is just too exaggerately represented and was part of the US congo free state propagenda where America tried to accuse Belgian autorities of non-humanitarian actions in priority to set up anti colonialist ideas.


10 million is a high estimate. It's doubtful it is that high, but it's certainly non-humanitarian actions, and it's certainly several million killed.

20% population drop were never proved.


It's clear to 4/5 sources that Congo had around ~50% population drop 1885-1908.

"William Henry Sheppard, a Presbyterian missionary, recalled in his diary passing by more than a dozen burned villages. He was taken to the headquarters of a gendarmerie recruit called Mlumba Nkusa, described by Sheppard as ‘a most repulsive looking man’ because his teeth were filed into sharp points, his eyebrows were shaven and his eyelashes plucked out. Leopold had demanded that Mlumba collect 60 slaves and a huge amount of rubber, but only eight slaves and 2,500 balls of rubber had been gathered. ‘I think we killed between 80 and 90,’ said Mlumba of the local workers. He took Sheppard to a hut reserved for the rape of hostages and to another for the preservation of collected hands. Sheppard counted 81 hands hanging over the fire."

Reports like these were the great majority.

Congo genocide real death toll is estimated between 100 000 and 200 000 lives in a timespan of 35 years. Belgians were using the same torturing technique originated from the Arabs and the king of belgium Leopold II became filthy rich as heck.


Who the hell says that between 100k and 200k were killed? Not even the most conservative, semi-dubious estimates go below a million, this is ridiculous.

Thereafter I believe that Arabian sultans did more crap in 1000 years than we Belgians did in 35 years.


It spanned for 24 years for one, and Arabians never got to Congo, for two, for three, if this sultanate killed 1k folk every year, while the Belgians killed 40k per year, of course the Sultanate is going to be killing more folk, it's over 1000 years.

Honestly, your country has done a very terrible, awful thing, and to just try to make the numbers as low as possible so that your country is not as shamed as much? You shame humankind, and most Belgians, I hope.

Edited 9/21/2015 00:45:17
Crap Countries Did: 2015-09-21 00:55:19


Angry Koala
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Belgium shall be annihilated.
Crap Countries Did: 2015-09-21 14:45:19

SVY
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Wait, Congo didn't have the wheel in the 19th century? What's your source?

I find that difficult to believe. The wheel came to Egypt at approximately 1500 BC. I should think that 3000 years would be more than enough for the wheel to spread into Sudan and thence to Subsaharan Africa.

And what crap did the Arab sultans precisely do that was so horrible?

Edit: Wikipedia says that apparently the wheel did spread into Africa but was barely used there.

Edited 9/21/2015 14:53:45
Crap Countries Did: 2015-09-21 14:54:05


Eklipse
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I've noticed a common theme here. Everyone downplays genocides and atrocities when it's their country on trial, but if it's someone else's country being shamed they'll hammer in how horrible and evil the thing said foreign country did was.

Edited 9/21/2015 14:54:40
Crap Countries Did: 2015-09-21 18:05:49


Belgian Gentleman
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If you count the International African Association and International Congo Society into the period of Congo free state than the timespan can range in 35 years.

Force Publique (FP) was an established mercenary force created upon the authorization of Congo Free state to Leopold II. It consisted of a small handed gendarmerie with leading white officiers and a mix of ethnically-mixed African soldiers.

The Force Publique did immense ravage. A major purpose of the Force was to enforce the rubber quotas, and other forms of forced labor. They were armed with modern weapons and the chicotte. Chicotte was used on purpose used to slay down slaves to work harder and harvest more rubber. Under unhumanitarian conditions there were reports from the foreign missionaries and consulars that for a number of instances Congolese men and women were flogged or raped by the soldiers of the FP but unrestrained by their officiers and NCOs. If rebellions happened they were sent upon command to recalcitrant villages and cutting off human hans either as trophies or to show that bullets had not been wasted. During the early years of the force , mutinies of black soldiers occured several times.

Sadly Force Publique demolished the Congo and provided Leopold II his personal enrichment where great sums of money were made of exploitation.

On the positive side, FP pushed back Arabian slave traders in East Congo and freed them. Leopold II said in the Berlin conference that slave trade should be banished and immediately accused the Portuguese of doing it. His argument was supported by all the nations at the conference. This would back up the Belgian king in gaining his own personal colony.

In 1897 The Force Publique counted 14 000 men which consisted of 8 000 indigenous Belgians , 4 000 Congolese volunteers and 2 000 from foreign countries as reported in the Belgian regristration of Armed Forces published by Daniel Brackx.

So you're telling me that 14 000 men killed in 1 000 000 - 10 000 000 innocent Congolese?

As only I can imagine that would be unrealistic and practical impossible.

There was a study on casualities of the university of Brussels where the estimates of the Congolese genocide were set up between 100 000 to 200 000 deaths.

That's still huge in proportional measurements and horrible fact where the soldiers burned down entire towns (even killing children) and one of the most enforced,strictly and scary slaverny in history ever know.

The larger death toll as you suggest "would be far in the millions" were added later used in the Congo Free State propaganda war (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congo_Free_State_propaganda_war) where different indirect sources were claimed this to be in millions but since estimated and death toll was never counted in the state, they were inaccurately represented numbers which were based upon nothing but guesses. And in each of the books the guesses were ranging from 1 million to even 15 million. As propagenda speaks for itself, the toll was converted more to blow out proportions.

But Жұқтыру you were right at a population drop. I don't deny this horrible genocide but I find it obscure that so many overexaggerate the death toll as it was just a group of a small force doing it.

History can be rude but mankind is represented.

-
I shame humankind? Yes I know precisely what happened! but I believe death counts could not be in millions. Haven't I got the right to share my own opinion about this?
Crap Countries Did: 2015-09-23 11:29:28


The Mad Japanese
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100th Post

Edited 9/23/2015 11:29:37
Crap Countries Did: 2015-09-24 16:46:24


Okabe Rintarou ( AKA Hououin Kyouma)
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Жұқтыру +1
Crap Countries Did: 2015-09-24 22:06:52


Жұқтыру
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If you count the International African Association and International Congo Society into the period of Congo free state than the timespan can range in 35 years.


Well, certainly, there were some anti-Geneven things happening before 1885, yes, but Congo Free State was established as the king's private land in 1885 and de-established in 1908.

Force Publique (FP) was an established mercenary force created upon the authorization of Congo Free state to Leopold II. It consisted of a small handed gendarmerie with leading white officiers and a mix of ethnically-mixed African soldiers.


Yes, PF did some of the killings, but I believe most deaths happened due to very varying rubber making regions (in most places, rubber and other quota was way too high and not meeting it meant execution, or chopping off right hand.). Villages that united and refused to give rubber: completely destroyed and massacred.

On the positive side, FP pushed back Arabian slave traders in East Congo and freed them. Leopold II said in the Berlin conference that slave trade should be banished and immediately accused the Portuguese of doing it.


We have freed you, now you are my slaves.

So you're telling me that 14 000 men killed in 1 000 000 - 10 000 000 innocent Congolese?


In 1908 (more reliable, government census), PF was roughly 20k, second of all - that is roughly 250 killed by each soldier (if 5 mil were killed), as well as 12k more "soldier-in-training".

And yes, it's quite possible - Turkey genocided over 2 million Armenians, Assyrians and Greeks - during an intense war (every man needed) they eventually lost.

The larger death toll as you suggest "would be far in the millions" were added later used in the Congo Free State propaganda war (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congo_Free_State_propaganda_war) where different indirect sources were claimed this to be in millions but since estimated and death toll was never counted in the state, they were inaccurately represented numbers which were based upon nothing but guesses. And in each of the books the guesses were ranging from 1 million to even 15 million. As propagenda speaks for itself, the toll was converted more to blow out proportions.


The Congo Free State propaganda war was a worldwide media propaganda campaign waged by both King Leopold II of Belgium and the critics of the Congo Free State.

It's been proven that advertisements that dissuade something are generally more truth-containing.

I shame humankind? Yes I know precisely what happened! but I believe death counts could not be in millions. Haven't I got the right to share my own opinion about this?


I may have been harsh, but patriotism is an evil concept. And it's like those who deny Holocaust - most who do coincidentally hate Jews.
Crap Countries Did: 2015-09-24 22:33:03


Okabe Rintarou ( AKA Hououin Kyouma)
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Greece : Greco-Turkish War
Turkey : Greco-Turkish War

LOLOLOLOLOLO
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