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Proposal For New Custom Scenario Rules: 9/7/2015 07:51:34


Prophet
Level 56
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As I'm sure most of you are aware, a lot of attention has risen among us about unfair custom scenarios and especially those regarding Sun God. Now I am not in anyway saying that custom scenarios are a bad thing, they are damn awesome but more needs to be done to regulate the abusing of them.

There are two threads currently going about this topic:
https://www.warlight.net/Forum/107525-sun-god-worthy-ban

https://www.warlight.net/Forum/107511-rigged-games

A few ideas have been bounced around on these threads but i believe that a conclusion needs to be made and that Fizzer has to implement something.

My idea has two parts to it. Both relatively simple.

Firstly, seeing the actual custom scenario layout can be difficult, especially if you are new and dont quite know your way around. The idea of this first part is to make it easier to spot and view custom scenarios.
I am aware of the symbol indicating custom scenarios on the dashboard but it doesnt really do that much. On the game description (the page before the game starts and it shows all the players currently joined and the description) there should be a highlighted section stating that it is a custom scenario so people don't fall into the trap unbeknown. Second to that is that there should be a direct link (possibly beneath the settings button) to the custom scenario viewer so that it is much easier to see the scenario and not be caught out as well as saving time for the rest of us trying to find it.


The second part is the further regulation of abusing custom scenarios by adding the rule that 'anyone found to have created a custom scenario that ensures the victory of one player for the reason of personal gain and that does so without the alerting of other players BEFORE the start of the game can be suspended or banned under the discretion of an administrative power'

I feel that these two simple additions will greatly improve the experience on warlight regarding custom scenarios. Despite this not being common it does need to be regulated so Fizzer, please take this into consideration and do something about this problem.

Feel free to leave your thoughts/opinions about this or any additions or changes would make.
Cheers,
Proposal For New Custom Scenario Rules: 9/7/2015 08:02:43


SuperGamerz 
Level 58
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Whenever my custom scenarios are unbalanced, I always let people know, encouraging them to make alliances to prevent them from being overpowered. That being said Sun God has made himself impossible to defeat several times.
Proposal For New Custom Scenario Rules: 9/7/2015 08:07:52


Prophet
Level 56
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which is what the majority do, which is great, but we have to cater to that minority, like Sun God, that doesn't. Society can only move as fast as it's slowest member.
Proposal For New Custom Scenario Rules: 9/7/2015 08:49:41


Dublin Warrior 
Level 49
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Several Points that I think should be made:

If I ran the zoo, I would suspend Sun God's ability to make custom scenario games for 2 weeks.

In that time, I'd make a concrete policy on weighted games.

I agree with haydos on all his points.

Teaching newbies is a rewarding experience for those who want the game to succeed, for those who vividly remember being newbies, etc.


*Playing* in Custom Scenario Games should be something that requires a level 15? account.

*Playing* in a multiplayer game with a ton of custom settings should require a level ?? account.

Rating Templates and Custom Scenarios should become one of the most prominent items that people see at the end of a game, especially with Custom Scenarios.

Auto-Games should be expanded.
Proposal For New Custom Scenario Rules: 9/7/2015 09:35:54

inquisitor
Level 56
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A simple solution is all games with custom scenarios are always practice, just like how games with uneven teams are. I don't see why we should let the creator set those games as ranked.
Proposal For New Custom Scenario Rules: 9/7/2015 09:54:36


ℳℛᐤƬrαńɋℰ✕
Level 57
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@Haydos
Firstly, seeing the actual custom scenario layout can be difficult, especially if you are new and dont quite know your way around
No its not and I do believe it is Highlighted by Default, so there is a warning. A decent player would either understand what it means or would search Warlight Wiki, Help forum for help to understand what custom scenario means. Always there is the third option to go with the flow and figure it out in the game - and this lies solely in players own decision and Risk.
https://www.warlight.net/SettingsHighlight
https://www.warlight.net/wiki/Custom_Scenario
Here it is stated clearly, "that Custom Scenarios can be used to create unbalanced/unfair games"
And thus far I have not game across a player who would be stunned in game, because he did not saw from Dashboard or Setting overview that game was either Custom S, Local Deployment, No-Split, Multi-Attack? Its either your personal problem, or just being too rushy to read about the game in first place. Warlight can´t help here, only general knowledge to study-read before using new things. Applies to basically everything in life. Don´t drive unless you have learned or gathered basic experience of know-how-do. Simple as that!

The second part is the further regulation of abusing custom scenarios

What are you trying to say? Custom scenarios are exactly so one could create unbalanced games. For example to set 1 person against 20 person etc. How would you estimate if particular custom scenario was made solely for "to ensure winning for player X". Basically every custom scenario, that is unbalanced (therefore most of them) can be seen like that. It is simple: Play only in-Practice mode Custom Scenarios - so winning has nothing to do with player-profile stats and Voila. Or start playing with players you know. Problem Solved. All settings and custom-scenario distribution is visible before the game - if one can´t see the flaw in the system, then it is not the problem of game, but the player.

@Dublin Warrior
Level has nothing to do with skill nor experience. Why limit amount of games? Why? Just add Prerecusite filter (available after level 11) - Just add games finished minimum or multiplayer games played. And yes, you can even limit how many multi-day/real-time games player is in - there is no need for Standardized version. And you have your Filter for newer players - Again Fizzer time saved! Every one can be level 60 in a day with few games - so whats the point of your level cap? Custom Scenario means Custom - what is there to auto?

There is no need to start Copying already-made-game-functions in a new form. It does not improve the game, but simply waste Fizzer times. Haydos I do not believe a player who has finished 100 games with boot rate of 20% can speak for majority. If some people can´t use Custom Scenario as creative tool nor Open-Seat-Prerecusites, then the problem lies in a player. Just do not join the games you don´t like-trust. Easy - there is no need for censorship and take away functions other Custom Scenario creators use.

Edited 9/7/2015 09:58:27
Proposal For New Custom Scenario Rules: 9/7/2015 10:44:34


Prophet
Level 56
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I see your point and im gonna try not to take some of that as a personal attack but nevertheless i believe you are missing the point.
I have played in quite a few custom scenario games and i know when a game is fair or unfair and i can tell you that the point of custom scenario games is not so that they are unfair, its so that players can utilize creativeness in the setting ups of games that yes, occasionally if not always leads to some sort of bias to one or several players. But we aren't talking about that we are talking about people who are purposely preying on people who don't know the game as well as most regular users do and are doing so purely for personal gain. The point of these changes would be to stop people, not from creating unfair games, but from cheating people using deception.It will not actually limit the options available to people for custom scenarios, just stop people from taking advantage of others. The things stated in the original post would simply make the process a bit less opaque. People who abuse this privilege can be reported and an administrative power would be able to assess the situation and make a decision.
I understand that the system i've proposed has flaws and i havent answered all your question. It will need a lot of refining if it to even be considered however i still believe it would be a good system to have. Thanks for your feedback, feel free to propose any amendments or changes.
Proposal For New Custom Scenario Rules: 9/7/2015 11:14:22


ℳℛᐤƬrαńɋℰ✕
Level 57
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@Haydos

Don´t take any of my posts as personal attack, there is no incentive for that in my part. I am just critical, and believe it to be constructive.

About the first part I do not feel the need for change as I described above. f would favour your idea if it regards the full Dashboard improvement. There is the Gameplay Categories: Standard (Fizzer support), Diplomacy, Lottery and Custom Scenario = Basically what I tend to see in my perspective and then sub-categories regarding 1v1, FFA, Team game and multi-team. If, the idea would be to improve Dashboard game-Filter functionality and maybe by Default Show only Standard gameplay and hide the rest, but offer people to change Default view for their personal needs - this could benefit the older-players and newer players I believe.

Second part. I have heard about the famous Sun God. But just to rephrase the problem. How to detect the Abuse of Custom Scenarios. Try to generalize the problem. Yes, it might be obvious in Sun God case (although I have not looked into the matter), but other cases are problematic, because even if someone not-deliberately did came up with certain positions favourable/stronger, some players might feel that after they have lost to them and report just due to fact of being in underdog position - calling it abuse. I have not clear statistics, but I think there is enough reporting from the FFA-teaming, multi-team teaming etc which is not forbidden. And especially in cases after the player lost, not before fully understanding the position that might arise in particular situation. Detecting the abuse is hard. It is not cheating - let that be clear. It is rigging the games. Same goes for lotteries. There was an idea once to make all Custom Scenarios (and even lotteries) practice mode - so the discussion could be killed before incetive given. Detecting the clear abuse is complicated - it might be clear as blue sky, but not always.

Edited 9/7/2015 11:16:27
Proposal For New Custom Scenario Rules: 9/7/2015 13:08:26

[NI] Lord eKell
Level 56
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I really don't see the problem with this game the Sun God made that is linked in the forum post 'Sun God worthy of a ban', but apparently others are actually bad. It would be much easier to just ban the few people who are abusing the system than changing the whole game.

Scenarios can be used to make very well balanced team games, usually based on historical events, these should be ranked. Winning a diplo, be it as a large country or a small country can take months and people should be allowed to choose if they are ranked.

It is made very clear that a custom scenario is in use. There is a symbol on the dashboard, there is usually a game name that implies a scenario, a description, it says 'Slot A, B, C, etc.' when you join, and it is highlighted in the settings.

Ban Sun God if you must, but don't overhaul the entire game just because he is annoying.
Proposal For New Custom Scenario Rules: 9/7/2015 13:14:36


OnlyThePie
Level 53
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@DublinWarrior

*Playing* in Custom Scenario Games should be something that requires a level 15? account.

I like this idea, it would definitely help diplo hosts get rid of new players failing to read the rules too.

*Playing* in a multiplayer game with a ton of custom settings should require a level ?? account.

This seems less fair, unless it's something low like 10. Like once they get the basics they can join a more complicated game.

Rating Templates and Custom Scenarios should become one of the most prominent items that people see at the end of a game, especially with Custom Scenarios.

While I wish wish wish that this was possible (I pride myself on my scenarios), there are simply too many to be worth rating. They aren't as difficult as maps, and each player could possibly have 25 or more. There would have to be a way to narrow it, like each player elects one scenario to be available for ranking, and if they want to switch, it's like a button, like your color.
Proposal For New Custom Scenario Rules: 9/7/2015 13:36:25

inquisitor
Level 56
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*Playing* in Custom Scenario Games should be something that requires a level 15? account.

I like this idea, it would definitely help diplo hosts get rid of new players failing to read the rules too.


Warlight has what you want - prerequisites. As a host, you may limit players so they can only join after reaching certain levels. It suits your needs more.
Proposal For New Custom Scenario Rules: 9/12/2015 09:40:44


Vormulak
Level 53
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dumb idea if you're too lazy to check scenario you deserve what you get, cry more
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