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Time to remove luck from the strategic templates?: 2015-08-13 18:24:07

smileyleg 
Level 61
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1v1 ladder is currently 0% WR.
Time to remove luck from the strategic templates?: 2015-08-13 19:04:55


Timinator • apex 
Level 67
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hedja was talking about 2v2 ladder
Time to remove luck from the strategic templates?: 2015-08-13 19:06:06


ChrisCMU 
Level 61
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Yeah, 2v2 should be %0 WR also, and at least add another pick.
Time to remove luck from the strategic templates?: 2015-08-13 19:07:10


Ace Windu 
Level 58
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Leave the 1v1 ladder the way it is.

Edited 8/13/2015 19:07:36
Time to remove luck from the strategic templates?: 2015-08-13 20:44:03


Mostly Harmless 
Level 60
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Can't speak for the 2v2 ladder; never played that on the new settings, unfortunately.

But...
I'm another one of those in favour of keeping the current 1v1 ladder.
I find that 0% SR is kinda boring actually.
To me, Warlight is part Risk management, part anticipation, and next teamwork and diplomacy, depending on settings. Mastering all those aspects is where the best players distinguish themselves.
Risk management has always been in important part of the game. Not much of that remains on 0% SR.

I understand the need for it in coin games - legality of gambling and so on. And I suppose it has its charm. I find 0% SR works quite well on large map, where quick expansion is a must. But in the 1v1 ladder, it would make games too predictable.


Warlight is a game of near infinite variety and there's something here for everybody. It's why I keep coming back.

There is no need to make all settings the same. What works for coin games won't necessarily work on the ladder.
Time to remove luck from the strategic templates?: 2015-08-14 14:16:05

Good Kid 
Level 56
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0% straight round makes things like this happen:

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=9245384


It makes picking way less interesting.

I do not think any picks on that map compete with that triple pick. The only way to win was to predict the triple pick and steal part of it.
Time to remove luck from the strategic templates?: 2015-08-20 16:08:32

Dr. Walter Ego
Level 57
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ok, I totally bored the luck factor in this game...

@everybody who want the risk management
go and play poker! :P

Why cannot be the Warlight a nice skill game like the chess?

Fizzer made the NLC, it is almost perfect, but the picking phase.

What about if we use the white/black positions from the chess?

The player who play on the white side simple get the first pick, and the black side get the 2th-3th etc.
I think it is much better than present one based on the speed.
Can be very interesting when you have to find a good counter with black. And prevent it with white, etc.
Can be complex, and no any luck just skill.

And the pairing system can manage you play as many white games as black ones.
Time to remove luck from the strategic templates?: 2015-08-20 16:20:49


ChrisCMU 
Level 61
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0% straight round makes things like this happen:

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=9245384


It makes picking way less interesting.

I do not think any picks on that map compete with that triple pick. The only way to win was to predict the triple pick and steal part of it.


That is not true though. Suppose he had picked something like SEA, CA, quad Africa? He would have had direct counter and that changes the game big time. Furthermore, N Af and S Af could have both been used in the triple. you could have ended up with each of you getting 2 picks in Africa quite easily.

To say the triple is the only option is dumb though. Even if I were to agree with that, why does that make the game less dynamic? As I said, you could have split that. Either way, I don't see how it makes the game less strategic. Taking away 3v2 fails doesn't mean there is less complexity. You replace risk management with more leftover management. it is just a different kind of strategy (for better or worse is each person't opinion).

Edited 8/20/2015 16:21:09
Time to remove luck from the strategic templates?: 2015-08-20 16:23:51


ChrisCMU 
Level 61
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Dr Walter - Fizzer already said he won't use no luck picking. The only options he is debating here are

1) O% WR vs %0 SR

2) Random move order vs Cyclical Move order (not no luck cycle)

Picking order would not be changed no matter what.
Time to remove luck from the strategic templates?: 2015-08-20 16:35:00

Help
Level 58
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Are games with 3 neutrals longer ? The map is large and expansion is slow. 3 neutrals will give more value to bonuses. Positional advantage will be more important. Just need to make sure a bonus in two turns is possible for 2-bonus. More base or initial can be added.


I want luck to stay the same way.


Edit : It is a very dumb idea. I like how Oceania plays out with 3 neutrals. Less expansion or macro and more about general strategy.

Edited 8/20/2015 16:45:03
Time to remove luck from the strategic templates?: 2015-08-21 05:26:22

Dr. Walter Ego
Level 57
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@Chris: Fizzer wrote he won't use NLC (accurately he will use NLC without speed picks) but he can use my idea to prevent the luck in picking phase.

@Fizzer: when do you plan the change on the ladder?
I cannot bear the thrills during coinflip very important first turns, seeing 4vs3 captures, leftover banzai (one side maximums other side minimums), etc.
Time to remove luck from the strategic templates?: 2015-08-21 06:46:30


master of desaster 
Level 66
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The 1vs1 ladder loses so much value with sr and even cycle move order makes games more static and calculabel.

Fizzer please read this thread carefully before you decide on any changes. The majority wants the 1vs1 ladder to stay as it is.

For the 2vs2 ladder it also gives a clear tendence on 4 picks.
Time to remove luck from the strategic templates?: 2015-08-22 01:25:07


Benjamin628 
Level 60
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http://strawpoll.me/5187606/r

Most people seem to want 3 picks, but having an odd number of picks is a truly awful idea for 2v2 on a map of this size - heavily distorted towards first pick.

I agree fully with MoD
Time to remove luck from the strategic templates?: 2015-08-22 10:39:33


[WM] Gnuffone 
Level 60
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yes, 3 picks in a 2v2 map like that is a bad idea..odd number.
Time to remove luck from the strategic templates?: 2015-08-22 12:12:58


indibob
Level 61
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"Fizzer please read this thread carefully before you decide on any changes. The majority wants the 1vs1 ladder to stay as it is."

I don't know where you get that one, if Fizzer reads the thread carefully as suggested, he will see the majority want it to be 0%SR but to not change the move order.

You also have to consider the many players who don't join the ladder because it has luck involved in it. Take that luck out and it will become truly competitive

Edited 8/22/2015 12:15:20
Time to remove luck from the strategic templates?: 2015-08-22 13:38:52


Timinator • apex 
Level 67
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just went through the thread and it was like 3:1 for keeping the current luck settings
Time to remove luck from the strategic templates?: 2015-08-22 13:50:29


Benjamin628 
Level 60
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And almost all very strong players (Timinator, MoD, piggy, etc) also want to keep a little bit of luck.

Edited 8/22/2015 13:50:39
Time to remove luck from the strategic templates?: 2015-08-24 03:47:10


Rogue NK
Level 59
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Basically, I want luck when we are attacking each other but I don't want it when expanding/attacking neutrals.

I went through here and found that most people want luck to be removed but not across the board and a lot people still want wr. So on the subject of luck, there is a consensus to throw it out.

Edited 8/24/2015 03:52:25
Time to remove luck from the strategic templates?: 2015-08-24 12:45:52

smileyleg 
Level 61
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The majority definitely wants it to stay WR.

I think WR vs neutrals and SR vs enemies is something worth considering, although I'm sure that would require coding change and I'm not sure it's worth it.
Time to remove luck from the strategic templates?: 2015-08-24 16:47:43


ChrisCMU 
Level 61
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The majority also wants 4+ picks on 2v2 ladder AND to remove the %16 luck.

Edited 8/24/2015 16:48:29
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