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Ground rule to pick a counter and play with it: 7/21/2015 04:22:25


Master Ryiro 
Level 62
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never do this:-



Edited 7/21/2015 04:24:23
Ground rule to pick a counter and play with it: 7/21/2015 18:24:41


buddyboyb1
Level 56
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why
Ground rule to pick a counter and play with it: 7/21/2015 18:26:11


Nex
Level 60
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Nice counter ^_^
Ground rule to pick a counter and play with it: 7/21/2015 19:09:47


Sephiroth 
Level 60
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you made my day
Ground rule to pick a counter and play with it: 7/21/2015 19:23:14


Latnox 
Level 60
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That wasn't even FTB. Nice job man.
Ground rule to pick a counter and play with it: 7/21/2015 20:15:48

Chinball
Level 51
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I'm having a hard time following. Anyone care to explain?
Ground rule to pick a counter and play with it: 7/21/2015 20:40:19


Master Turtle 
Level 61
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1.) If your going to counter dont do it blindly.
2.) Dont bother countering 1st turn a bonus that will take 2 turns to finish.
3.) Its a waste of armies.
4.) It just looks dumb in the scope of things.....
5.) If you can't tell by looking at it then I dont need to bother explaining further.
Ground rule to pick a counter and play with it: 7/21/2015 22:30:52

Number836
Level 56
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Chin,

I agree with you. I had trouble understanding as well. There's no context to the situation. I've thought of at least 5 different scenarios where that move would be acceptable. Remember that if anyone tells you never to do something, it's probably the wrong advice. Almost everything has an exception.
Ground rule to pick a counter and play with it: 7/21/2015 22:35:47


Hostile
Level 58
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Exceptions are those things that don't follow the rules quite but are accepted.


If everything has an exception, it would be a rule.
Ground rule to pick a counter and play with it: 7/21/2015 23:31:46


Sephiroth 
Level 60
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I've thought of at least 5 different scenarios where that move would be acceptable.

Tell me one
Ground rule to pick a counter and play with it: 7/21/2015 23:53:45

Number836
Level 56
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2v2, 2 picks. Both bordered by different enemy. Stack one, dodge toward teammate for reinforcement/protection.
Ground rule to pick a counter and play with it: 7/22/2015 06:25:03


Master Ryiro 
Level 62
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(motd spoiler alert for you,don't read until the game is over)
nice points turtle
btw,that was you who did it vs motd(game is still going)
so for those did not understand,here's my critique to what turtle did in that situation and why that particular move should never be done(i won't talk about the other picks but just so you know,they are not associated with the current situation):
here's the distribution:-

so as you can see turtle wanted to blind counter the 2 turn bonus by motd as he thought motd would pick 1 or 2 bonuses in the south west

this was his vision and he did not know about motd being there since he got all his 1/2/3 picks
reason why he attacked next turnwas because he thought motd might go for that bonus and try to get 11/12 income in 2 turns which is the most you can get on that map in standard settings
he did not take into account many things while doing this
1.he did not know motd was there
2.there was no ftb(first turn bonus) threat for him to attack motd
3.even if you are in such a situation where you are bordering your opponent in that position,never attack the neutral in 1st turn,reason being that even your opponent knows there's a possibility of you being there
so if you attack neutral,you're basically wasting your ability to complete your own bonus,wasting 1 army in the process,your opponent can just sit there and do nothing in turn 1 while going for some other bonus
4.after you took that territory you realize there's nothing and you lose 2 tempos as well as 1 extra army which will sit there in that bonus doing nothing
5.later in the game you'll get 5 armies behind in 2 turns as you can't get your original bonus in time,you can't reach longer distance before your opponent,your opponent might not let you have the new bonuses you'll try to take later,you can't deny your opponent's expansion
basically unless your opponent is not knowing what he's doing,you cannot comeback into the game
Ground rule to pick a counter and play with it: 7/22/2015 15:03:47


Master Turtle 
Level 61
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I did not attack of my own accord.... I did as I thought I was instructed...
Ground rule to pick a counter and play with it: 7/22/2015 20:27:00


Jefferspin 
Level 61
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Hahahahahahahaha
Ground rule to pick a counter and play with it: 7/22/2015 22:19:30


little X
Level 58
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nice :)
Ground rule to pick a counter and play with it: 7/22/2015 22:27:43

Number836
Level 56
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Thanks for the clarity, Ryiro. Could you answer three questions:

1. Someone used the term "FTB" - that is "for the bonus"?

2. What does "motd" stand for?

3. Is there some strategic value in starting in that territory to begin with? It seems like there's other, better places to deploy (or was it random distribution)?

.........EDIT>>>>

Thanks Lidaxs, I think I understand this now a lot better.

Edited 7/23/2015 00:41:47
Ground rule to pick a counter and play with it: 7/23/2015 00:18:39


Lidaxs♦
Level 57
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@Number836:
1) FTB stands for "First Turn Bonus", a bonus you can take in your first turn.
2) motd stands for Master of the Dead, a player in the Master clan. Turtle played against this player in the game you are presented
3) It was random warlords distribution; Turtle picked it to be able to counter the 3-bonus next to it, only to see that there was nobody there. It would be strategic if it was a FTB, but it was not. Therefore, it pretty much lost its strategic value. (Plus, he did it blindly, as he said)

Edited 7/23/2015 00:19:28
Ground rule to pick a counter and play with it: 7/23/2015 01:14:10

Number836
Level 56
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Thanks again, actually a little I still don't understand.

There's only 3 FTB on the entire map, each require that the same player have two nearby territories (one in the northeast/one in the southeast/one in southcenter). I still see less value in the original pick, than the move itself.

This pick is a three turn bonus minimum. So why not just pick the other territory (the one the player expected to be taken by enemy) - that way, if you lose the pick, you know for certain someone is there?

It seems like that should be the lesson of this story. I guess that's what meant by "blindly" though.

Edited 7/23/2015 01:35:10
Ground rule to pick a counter and play with it: 7/23/2015 06:08:00


[WM] Gnuffone 
Level 60
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Haha this is lot of my style =)

I kinda like blind counter but for do it you neee to know well your opponent

and btw i see only 1 ftb
Ground rule to pick a counter and play with it: 7/23/2015 06:33:56


Master Turtle 
Level 61
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Yes there is only 1 FTB on the board and it requires a triple pick.
Ground rule to pick a counter and play with it: 7/23/2015 07:08:08

Number836
Level 56
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You're right. I was looking at it with starts of 5 army. But clearly it was 4.

Edited 7/23/2015 07:12:48
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