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seasonal ladder unfair pairings: 5/30/2015 01:26:01


Master Ryiro 
Level 62
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https://www.warlight.net/LadderTeam?LadderTeamID=9808

after winning 9 games in a row in the season,without losing a single game,i get paired up with a player rated about 1000 points below mine
can anyone explain how the pairing in seasonal ladder works?

Edit:-changed the link,it was wrong earlier

Edited 5/30/2015 01:47:01
seasonal ladder unfair pairings: 5/30/2015 02:58:25


Timinator • apex 
Level 64
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don't join late next time :P
seasonal ladder unfair pairings: 5/30/2015 09:55:27


ps 
Level 60
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i sense master ryiro is growing annoyed with playing ladders
seasonal ladder unfair pairings: 5/30/2015 14:26:38


Master Ryiro 
Level 62
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nah
on the contrary i've had the most success in ladders in the last month :)
seasonal ladder unfair pairings: 6/1/2015 17:24:16


Drackoe
Level 59
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Yes, you have. :)

When do seasonal ladders start?
seasonal ladder unfair pairings: 6/1/2015 18:59:23


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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Yeah, joining late will screw things up because it will pair you with other late joiners. On the other hand, you can be on from start like me, beat MOD (someone I would expect to have a very high rating at end) and he ends up quitting the ladder after about 10 games. That happens to me every season. Beat a great player, they quit. All your great wins are down the toilet.
seasonal ladder unfair pairings: 6/1/2015 19:13:59


Beren • apex 
Level 63
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I'm pretty sure your rating is calculated based on your opponents' real ELO rating, not the ladder rating. That is to say, it doesn't take into account the bonuses you get from the number of games you have joined. So you don't really have any penalty if your opponents leave the ladder early (assuming they won most of their games before leaving).

Edited 6/1/2015 19:14:08
seasonal ladder unfair pairings: 6/1/2015 19:16:07


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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seasonal ladder unfair pairings: 6/1/2015 19:19:40

Hennns
Level 58
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look on previous seasons, you'll see players ranked high (even #1), also have played leavers. How large the impact is idk, but I don't think it's too much
seasonal ladder unfair pairings: 6/1/2015 19:27:07


Master of the Dead 
Level 63
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"""I'm pretty sure your rating is calculated based on your opponents' real ELO rating, not the ladder rating. That is to say, it doesn't take into account the bonuses you get from the number of games you have joined. So you don't really have any penalty if your opponents leave the ladder early (assuming they won most of their games before leaving). """

WRONG.. It is entirely dependent on the ladder rating displayed. I am certain of it.



"""Yeah, joining late will screw things up because it will pair you with other late joiners. On the other hand, you can be on from start like me, beat MOD (someone I would expect to have a very high rating at end) and he ends up quitting the ladder after about 10 games. That happens to me every season. Beat a great player, they quit. All your great wins are down the toilet."""

This is a major problem on the ladder. It gets even worse if you lose to a player and he drops out :|
seasonal ladder unfair pairings: 6/1/2015 19:29:06


Ragnarok
Level 66
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I agree with the unfair pairings, I mean in my previous pairing, I had 2 games going on which I was only like 1-2 turns away from winning, and because of that, I got paired with someone who was near me, but the next day I was like 5 places above from where I was and my pairing not only didn't catch up and he lost a couple positions in the ladder.

Edited 6/1/2015 19:32:07
seasonal ladder unfair pairings: 6/1/2015 19:35:35

Fizzer 
Level 58

Warzone Creator
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The seasonal ladder is designed so that the best strategy is to join before it starts and stay joined to it for the entire duration. It's designed this way so that there's no advantage to leaving/re-joining at key times to try and manipulate it.

As Beren says, ELO ratings are all calculated first and then bonuses are added afterwards for number of games played. Because it's done this way, there's no disadvantage for playing people who drop out.

WRONG.. It is entirely dependent on the ladder rating displayed. I am certain of it.

Isn't it funny how the people who word their arguments so strongly tend to be the ones who are incorrect?
seasonal ladder unfair pairings: 6/1/2015 19:37:12


Krzysztof 
Level 66
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"""I'm pretty sure your rating is calculated based on your opponents' real ELO rating, not the ladder rating. That is to say, it doesn't take into account the bonuses you get from the number of games you have joined. So you don't really have any penalty if your opponents leave the ladder early (assuming they won most of their games before leaving). """

WRONG.. It is entirely dependent on the ladder rating displayed. I am certain of it.

It works in two steps:
1. Calculate ELO ratings
2. Add bonus points for finished games
You can simulate it by yourself using tools linked on wiki page (https://www.warlight.net/wiki/Ladder_Ranks_and_Ratings).
So, Beren is right and you are wrong:P

Edited 6/1/2015 19:42:43
seasonal ladder unfair pairings: 6/1/2015 19:44:44


Master of the Dead 
Level 63
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Ok. I stand corrected :)

We had a thread about this a while back and the general agreement(based on observation) was that this was the case.
seasonal ladder unfair pairings: 6/1/2015 20:02:43


Master of the Dead 
Level 63
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"""WRONG.. It is entirely dependent on the ladder rating displayed. I am certain of it."""

Isn't it funny how the people who word their arguments so strongly tend to be the ones who are incorrect?


Ah.. That didn't come out right. I didn't mean to be disrespectful. I know Beren well and am sure he would take no offense.
seasonal ladder unfair pairings: 6/1/2015 20:05:26


Master Ryiro 
Level 62
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thanks for the help everyone
i think i get it now
seasonal ladder unfair pairings: 6/1/2015 20:16:54


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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Well, Master of the Dead is partially correct.

People who quit the seasonal ladder often just surrender all active games on the ladder. That has happened to me many times. So their rating probably would have been better, but they just gave up all active games. Nothing Fizzer can do about that, just saying it does happen and that it is a problem with playing the ladder right from the start because you may have a matchup with a person that never wanted to play it at all, but was auto joined from previous season. So they may go 0-5 and you have a completely wasted matchup that wrecks your rating.

The only solution I have to that is maybe don't auto join people from season to season (or have some sort of warning system)?

Edited 6/1/2015 20:17:45
seasonal ladder unfair pairings: 6/3/2015 05:00:36


Jefferspin 
Level 61
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Wow isn't MoTD a dick?

Edited 6/4/2015 05:18:03
seasonal ladder unfair pairings: 6/5/2015 07:10:02


[WM] Gnuffone 
Level 60
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in past experience i find out if you join too late you will never be able to ended up in top spot, beacuse you will get paired with low rated ppl. Do you remember Faith going 18-2 and barely be 20th?
I think all the luck you need, is get paired vs someone is going to have a very high rating in the first games and hope anybody is dropping the season just leaving every game with a loss. Stay in top 5 spot will give you better opponenet (higher ratings) and this will aloow you to win the season even with 16-4 or 15-5.
Also when the season start you should try to play your initial games very fast.
seasonal ladder unfair pairings: 6/21/2015 20:40:02


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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Again, why auto join people? You end up with people who just quit. We need more notice on the next season (blog post), no auto join, and then matchups will be much better
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