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The Auto-Games Saga: 4/20/2015 13:57:49


Nex
Level 60
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I have decided my next goal: to increase the average quality of the real-time auto games! I invite the rest of the top players to help me; we have a lot of work to do!



First game went well! Won off picks

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=8494697
The Auto-Games Saga: 4/20/2015 14:12:30


ℳℛᐤƬrαńɋℰ✕
Level 57
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Well. I am clearly not "Top Player". Neither I have much respect for many top players. But let it be there! But I would say a few words into topic?

What do you mean by "to increase the average quality of real-time auto games"? Because we all have our opinion - what is wrong with it in yours opinion?

IMHO
- First of all a slight imbalance of earth map overall?
- only earth map and the map of week available? I would add at least 2 more or make it rotatable over time so at least new players who has not yet discovered Custom game making could have more variety and maybe it offers them enjoyability and teaches basics of the game in settings which favour equal outcome. So we wont have low levels who are tiered of Auto games and therefore start making bad-Template based custom games, which over overflowing the Multi and Real-time game menu with them as sole player.

But as far as it goes as everyone from level 1 is able to make custom games not much is needed! I would favour Fizzer, have said it many times and seen discussion over time in forum to limit custom game makings. But it probably wont happen!

Why?
- To eliminate Lottery games - as their function is not what this game should approve.
- To eliminate game settings that are just poor. Well it is subjective!
- To eliminate Templates that on certain map offer a strong upper-hand option, that is not known to rest players or not discoverable in first looking. Like out of random players who add base income more than the tradition with not standard territory pick. And on new maps, which might not be balanced as well it offers them to get fast bonuses. As they know every corner of the map, its weakness and strength and relations to hes chosen game settings.
The Auto-Games Saga: 4/20/2015 14:23:17


Nex
Level 60
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I was not referring to the template itself, mind you.

The problem with RT auto games is that not many high-end players use them at the moment, and I think players of all skill should use them as a resource; if more high-end players join them, then beginning players get more quality experience and thus learn faster. Consider it this way: where is a new player most likely to encounter one of the top 10 players on the 1v1 ladder? They can't play them on the ladders, because of levels and relative skill; they can't join the clans they are in, because of relative skill; this leaves tournaments (which is an option, but is not the best option) and auto games (which top players don't seem to use much). Thus, new players are somewhat segregated from the top, perhaps not intentionally, but it is still there. As a result, newcomers to this game are unlikely to get quality teaching in the beginning and, as a result, their potential growth in skill suffers.

Edited 4/20/2015 14:28:03
The Auto-Games Saga: 4/20/2015 14:39:43


Sephiroth 
Level 60
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playing against random low level players doesn't make you improve your gameplay, quite the opposite - that's why not many top players use to join them

EDIT: good picks btw

Edited 4/20/2015 14:51:48
The Auto-Games Saga: 4/20/2015 15:09:59


ℳℛᐤƬrαńɋℰ✕
Level 57
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Well this is very altruistic way to play then. I hardly doubt that any high-end player would volunteer or find it competitive to play Auto-Games. Seems more like waste of time or a-must-duty.

There could be many ways to deal with this problem!

Why I would use a Template with boot rate 15% and games played to end 100 or 200? So I know there wont be players who (at least 75% of times and) even then I cannot be sure really understands the difference of straight round vs weighted and how Luck in different levels affect low army attacking and defending on all the rest of basics. I could say I use it as an advantage as some players do it in Rome map - wont say names go check it out yourself. Tricking low levels to use the implemented attack-analyzer wrong.

For me it is simple. Its strategy game therefore I play for competitive!
- Which means I first go and learn the basics in single game and read which I see hardly any new player does here. How many games to you need to play to understand that on straight no luck round to take territory of 2 you need 3 to attack? Like for real?

It is just frustrating to waste ones time with such games.. and I mean it.

I think more and better auto-games would improve the system. And make it appealing! As Earth is getting boring after playing few times. I could play Rome even after 300+ times and few other maps like this.

Thirdly I pointed so many people use map creating with custom settings just in their advance. Or use wrong settings to create serious imbalance. Fizzer is lacking income and I would approve on economic side Custom-game creating available only for members. Or limit it in severe way. Granting it for players who deserve it not make lottery maps and etc. I like the really wide range of settings, but it just proves how much skill people really lack making balance and competitive templates.

I know its easy: "Don´t like, don´t join"! But strategy games as in essence should hold up high standards of gameplay not help to develop it in way of becoming another random click and drag and collect points game! Already the idea of lottery games and rigged-Templates with imbalanced starting and etc shows quite poor community base!

Its simple. You cannot force people to play it! It needs different approach. I would start with thinking over the custom game creation and introduction of new players into game. But it is just my opinion. Therefore I seem to play most of the games with people I know or friends as Open rooms and community is Poor!
The Auto-Games Saga: 4/20/2015 15:54:56


Nex
Level 60
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I really do feel that we need to work harder, at connecting new players with opportunities to grow better. The ladders take forever to unlock, and that + strong teachers are really the only great way to improve at the moment. I'm doing what I can to fix this using my clan, but I can only take in so many players, so it isn't a perfect solution.
The Auto-Games Saga: 4/20/2015 16:10:34


szeweningen 
Level 60
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If new players want to improve:
- play 100 random 1v1 or team games to get a feel for the mechanics (no diplo, no ffa)
- read up on mechanics to understand what all settings in a game mean
- set prerequisites in games, never open a game with no prerequisites
- play both 1v1 and team games only with decent players
- analyse wins/losses
- repeat last 2 steps forever
- join high level tournaments if possible

I disagree there is such a problem with connecting new players with opportunities. In fact I believe it's the other way around, only very few new players want those opportunities really and most prefer very casual games vs weak opposition. Most new players I've seen that tried to improve want a very quick reward, so I've seen countless players that get to an average level and then start playing games with a preferred teammate on fixed teams for example. There are of course multiple possibilities to make higher level gameplay more accessible to new players, but it simply requires time and manpower. Regular streaming of warlight analysis, video tutorials on specific aspects etc. are all viable options, however in order for a better player to be willing to teach for a longer period than a conversation in 1 casual game you need some sort of incentive that is not there atm.
The Auto-Games Saga: 4/20/2015 17:03:02


Nex
Level 60
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If new players want to improve:
- play 100 random 1v1 or team games to get a feel for the mechanics (no diplo, no ffa)
- read up on mechanics to understand what all settings in a game mean
- set prerequisites in games, never open a game with no prerequisites
- play both 1v1 and team games only with decent players
- analyse wins/losses
- repeat last 2 steps forever
- join high level tournaments if possible


Those are all true. However. As a professional musician I have seen first-hand that having quality one-on-one instruction is often extremely beneficial. That is why aspiring professional musicians often go to college; colleges offer university professors on that instrument who are willing to teach private lessons. Having a good teacher spend time with you is a very useful tool to have, and we as strong players are irresponsible to this community if we don't offer some kind of teaching to those who want it.
The Auto-Games Saga: 4/20/2015 17:14:31


master of desaster 
Level 65
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I think it doesn't make a lot of sense when top players join the autogames more frequently. Most players who join them are that noobie that they don't really want to learn how to play. They just want to win and getting destroyed that badly is pretty discouraging. Players who want to improve join eighter a clan like illuminati (grwat thing!) Or set up games with good players directly or jointournamenzs
The Auto-Games Saga: 4/20/2015 17:29:06


Sephiroth 
Level 60
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I disagree there is such a problem with connecting new players with opportunities. In fact I believe it's the other way around, only very few new players want those opportunities really and most prefer very casual games vs weak opposition.


This. Despite i created my account some years ago, i only started playing at the end of this january, so i'm a fairly new player - I played a lot of 1v1 auto games and then I asked some good players to play against me and help me analyze my mistakes.
One has to create his own opportunities, there are no easy ways
The Auto-Games Saga: 4/20/2015 17:41:13


indibob 
Level 61
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Think theres a whole section of games being overlooked, its the randomized team games. That's the proper breeding ground for newcomers to learn from established players IMO. How you make them more popular i'm not sure though.
The boot rates are obviously a big factor, no-one wants to join a team game with someone with a 65% boot, but i suspect even if they were part of the set-up criteria, the top players wouldnt join because they like their comfort zone of known opponants.
No matter how you tinker with the auto games or any kind of game for that matter, the fact is Warlight is cliquey and you're not going to be able to encourage top players to leave their comfort zone to play them
The Auto-Games Saga: 4/20/2015 17:41:30


ℳℛᐤƬrαńɋℰ✕
Level 57
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In fact I believe it's the other way around, only very few new players want those opportunities really and most prefer very casual games vs weak opposition. Most new players I've seen that tried to improve want a very quick reward, so I've seen countless players that get to an average level and then start playing games with a preferred teammate on fixed teams for example.


Can´t agree more! Less than 5% of people in Open-Room games will stay after the game ended, or would comment a point or answer a question on particular movement. If I meet a player who stays after the game or comes back later and checks and has a word to say would definitely find a place in my friend last. Poorly, like I said it rarely happens.

As a professional musician I have seen first-hand that having quality one-on-one instruction is often extremely beneficial.


As professional athlete, academic .... and so on, there is no argument against one-on-one learning is more beneficial than mass non-communicative random actions, which go UN-calculated. But as said szweningen problem is in new players. And I agree they play their 20-50th game even without reading the wiki page and understanding the basics. A lvl40 with over 100 games did not understood even what is the difference of blockage and abandon card nor their usefulness in map.

Every player who is eager enough will find itself a companionship-teacher and so on, who will help him to advance. I do not teach for those who do not want to study. I only put my effort into something where I find meaning and positive outcome. And it applies to everything like even picking my enemies, opposite team.

You are trying to solve the problem, that is more related to new players or old players personality, which is reluctantly and vaguely connected with game in itself.

And am trying not to be offensive, but your other thread: https://www.warlight.net/Forum/86764-phd-titles
Pretty much revealed you are the one who ought to be taught! Starting with making relevant threads! No one cares on general forum about your clan roleplay! It is just childish! Too bad it takes forever and ever to convince Fizzer to do smth about the Forum. Only option is to close it forever! And thus far I have not received much support, maybe my lack of online being, to start making private forum. Moderated and censored by adults!

Edited 4/20/2015 17:41:53
The Auto-Games Saga: 4/20/2015 17:58:39


Nex
Level 60
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Mr. Tranquilizer, you appear to have a mistaken opinion of my clan and its intentions.


No one cares on general forum about your clan roleplay! It is just childish!


We do not roleplay. The PhD title is an honorary distinction given to the very best of my teachers. Their work and their contributions to my clan are fantastic, and they deserve to be acknowledged. I believe that teaching and giving opportunities to the next generation is highly relevant.


Pretty much revealed you are the one who ought to be taught!


Funny you mention that. Yes. I am the first to admit that I still have a lot to learn. I do not claim to be the best player here, or even one of the best. I am, however, a bit stronger than average and I hope to find ways to contribute to Warlight's community beyond 1v1.


I hope that addresses your concerns.
The Auto-Games Saga: 4/20/2015 18:02:30


Nex
Level 60
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One has to create his own opportunities, there are no easy ways


Part of me agrees entirely with this, Sephiroth! And I agree with those above that a player must be willing to learn, and put in the work to become better. But I believe that our community can do a better job at aiding those players who want to improve.
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