<< Back to General Forum   Search

Posts 1 - 26 of 26   
WL 2.0 new ladder?: 7/22/2013 19:32:33


[WM] Gnuffone 
Level 60
Report
@Fizzer, can you give us some information about ladder on the future?
Are you going to add some ladder on 2.0 WL?
You will ever create 3v3 eu ladder?
WL 2.0 new ladder?: 7/22/2013 19:34:26


Ⓖ. Ⓐrun 
Level 57
Report
All he will say is wait and see ;) He won't release any information due to people asking him. He may do a couple of sneak peaks but tell all and the surprise is gone. I can't wait to read the WarLight 2.0 blog post :D
WL 2.0 new ladder?: 7/22/2013 19:39:14


{rp} Julius Caesar 
Level 46
Report
Yeah wl 2.0 is gonna be huge i cant wait for the ios app
WL 2.0 new ladder?: 7/22/2013 19:41:23


brisk • apex 
Level 58
Report
you can create any ladder yourself wit CLOT.
WL 2.0 new ladder?: 7/22/2013 19:45:28


Ⓖ. Ⓐrun 
Level 57
Report
True Brisk, but some may find it slightly difficult with no programming skills ;)
WL 2.0 new ladder?: 7/22/2013 20:12:57


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
Report
Also, CLOT only does W-L, not a rating system. It is possible to have a rating system, but requires a little more work.
WL 2.0 new ladder?: 7/22/2013 21:08:36

Fizzer 
Level 58

Warzone Creator
Report
CLOT only does W-L, not a rating system. It is possible to have a rating system, but requires a little more work.

CLOT is just a system of creating and querying games. The ratings system you build on top of it is completely independent - it can be W/L or anything else you can dream up.

No new ladders are coming in 2.0, although CLOT is getting some enhancements. I can't speak as to what will happen after 2.0, but I would like to point out that only 11 people have voted for a 3v3 EU ladder on user voice. It would be pretty silly to have a ladder with 3 only teams.
WL 2.0 new ladder?: 7/22/2013 21:51:51

Heyheuhei 
Level 57
Report
Voted!
WL 2.0 new ladder?: 7/22/2013 22:36:50


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
Report
I have no votes, mine are all tied up in my suggestions.

And I haven't touched CLOT in months, just tried to fire up some things today, getting all kinds of issues. I understand programming a bit, but it can be pretty confusing. I hope 2.0 brings some more clarity. Gonna try a fresh install I think because I'm not sure why it is giving me errors just adding the application.
WL 2.0 new ladder?: 7/22/2013 23:19:47

Qi 
Level 55
Report
i am concinced a eu 3v3 ladder is a very bad idea too. only a dozen uservoice votes. of course nobody would enjoy it. and look at PS's 3v3 ladders. they had limited exposure and werent as smooth as an official ladder would be. but if eu 3v3 were so popular, wouldnt more than 50 people join? the current ffa ladder is proof of what fizzer is talking about: if the map and template is good enough, at least 150 people will play it. eu 3v3's template needs some work if it wants to be as successful as the castle ffa template. this is all proven to be true by uservoice and simple ladder comparisons.

seriously though, fizzer doesnt care. permanent ladders have to be on fizzer's own maps. if . makes money with 2.0, do you think he wants legal issues bc eu 3v3 would be popular and the map has more people playing (clicking ads and buying memberships to play)? why else would fizzer waste 10 times more time to create a.cumbersome and less successful CLOT system if creating an official eu 3v3 ladder would be so much easier.

so to avoid any discussion of legal aspects fizzer has to resort to bs arguments about votes on uservoice and how unpopular eu 3v3 is.

just give up, gnuff. maybe you can hope for a new eu 3v3 CLOT. but fizzer wants you to be a good puppet and go vote on uservoice to bide your time and let this debate die.

be happy to get trophies and stickers like a boy scout and school child when 2.0 is released.
WL 2.0 new ladder?: 7/23/2013 00:09:08


Unreality 
Level 50
Report
if it's about legal issue, fizzer could simply update the terms of user agreement. if this is true then Qi you may want to adjust some of ur conclusion
WL 2.0 new ladder?: 7/23/2013 00:23:56


Clifford The Big Red Dog 
Level 37
Report
Since you posted that fizzier, the votes have gone from 11 to 38...
WL 2.0 new ladder?: 7/23/2013 01:01:55

Qi 
Level 55
Report
unreality, i am assuming fizzer is intelligent. since all of his arguments for not having a 3v3 ladder (of some sort: random teammates or 2 teammates +1 random teammate where individuals get ranked, 3 fixed teammates where the team gets ranked) have been based on bad arguments (2 years ago: "eu 3v3 is not popular enough so not enough people will join bc i did a poll of only members and even though not everybody responded and i ignored the fact that people would buy a membership if i made this ladder, i have to conclude it wouldnt work."…now: "uservoice votes are too low"), i can only assume there is something else going on here.

if i am wrong about my initial assumption (fizzer is intelligent), then i will gladly change my initial assumption and take his half-arguments for what they are. but i'd rather assume he is intelligent and is finding ways (CLOT, half arguments then and now, 2.0 will improve CLOT but not add a non-fizzer map ladder) to avoid making a permanent ladder on a map he did not make in order to protect himself from lawsuits.
WL 2.0 new ladder?: 7/23/2013 02:00:25


Frankdeslimste • apex 
Level 58
Report
Qi:

You are aware Fizzer didn't make the Four Castles map right? Neither did he make the EA&O map and Battle Islands V (season 3 and season 5). So I doubt it's because of legal issues.
WL 2.0 new ladder?: 7/23/2013 02:27:47

Qi 
Level 55
Report
frank, i said permanent ladder. subtleties matter in lawsuits, even if they dont here on the forum.

the seasonal ladder is not a defining reason why people play wl (and click future ads) or buy memberships. how would aper, chaos, eitz or anyone else claim they deserve money from fizzer for use of their maps in a temporary seasonal ladder?

what if troll's eu map becomes a ladder? and fizzer added an auto game template in real time and multiday? troll's map is already one of the two most played maps since wl started. if it (or any other future map with a comparative popularity) were showcased as much as fizzer's maps, wouldnt it begin to define what the wl experience is about? and couldnt it be argued that such a map were a major contributing reason why people buy memberships and click on ads?

making the majority of seasonal ladders on fizzer's maps protects him enough. not making a permanent ladder on another person's map or promoting (with autogames) such a map protects fizzer more. why would he want to bother with the possibility of lawsuits if he doesnt need to?
WL 2.0 new ladder?: 7/23/2013 02:36:23

JSA 
Level 59
Report
Qi, couldn't he add something to the user agreement on warlight in the rules and terms to avoid possible lawsuits?

That's my biggest question, but I understand what you are saying and it makes sense if there's no easy fix for it.
WL 2.0 new ladder?: 7/23/2013 02:45:20


Summer 
Level 61
Report
Users retain all of ownership rights of Content they submit to WarLight, LLC. However, by submitting Content to WarLight, LLC., Users hereby grant WarLight, LLC. a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable and transferable license to use, reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of, display, and perform the Content in connection with the Service and WarLight, LLC.'s (and its successors' and affiliates') business, including without limitation for promoting and redistributing part or all of the Service (and derivative works thereof) in any media formats and through any media channels. Users also hereby grant each User of the Service a non-exclusive license to access their Content through the Service, and to use, reproduce, distribute, display and perform such Content as permitted through the functionality of the Service and under these Terms of Service.


Helps to actually read the terms of service.
WL 2.0 new ladder?: 7/23/2013 05:03:16


[WM] Gnuffone 
Level 60
Report
Fizzer, can i have link of uservoice of 3v3 eu ladder?
Nobody know of it, for this nobody voted it...(me too i don t voted, didn t know about it)
How much point need this uservoice to convince you to make this?
I will try to show this to a lot of ppl for take enough voted.
WL 2.0 new ladder?: 7/23/2013 05:11:51

Qi 
Level 55
Report
summer, do people accept those terms when they make an account or map? or is that just hidden on the website somewhere? that is, is he absolutely protected in the case of a lawsuit? if he is, then i withdraw my initial assumption (he is intelligent), in which case there is no excuse for the sorry state of the ladders.
WL 2.0 new ladder?: 7/23/2013 05:26:15

Qi 
Level 55
Report
How much point need this uservoice to convince you to make this? 

1 vote is needed, fizzer's. the other votes dont matter. uservoice is a dead end that makes wl appear 'consumer friendly' and 'professional'. it is a way for fizzer to not have to answer people's questikns and thereby save his time for more meaningful things.
WL 2.0 new ladder?: 7/23/2013 07:27:33


ps 
Level 60
Report
Qi: erm, you're clutching at straws there. If Fizzer's only concearn was legal issues he could easily make an europe map himself and be done with it. I believe Fizzer is trying to avoid ladder overload: if you offer too many options to compete on high level the players will disperse and all of them will have less competition. Everyone has their own concepts for favorite settings, so new ladders would only make sense if they are really in high popular demand. I share your belief that 3vs3 europe is in high demand. As is an alternative 1vs1 (not middle earth). As are realtime ladders imho. Which was why i bothered having a go at CLOT to test those theories. But there is a threshold of subjective interest in new official ladders here, and quite clearly Fizzer doesn't share our views on new ladders being in that high demand yet. The only interface you have to prove to him that they are indeed in high popular demand is uservoice, instead of dissing it i would suggest using it.
WL 2.0 new ladder?: 7/23/2013 07:41:04

Qi 
Level 55
Report
straws? all assumptions, as mentioned. it's a theory. either Assumption A (he is intelligent but has a major reason -- legal? -- why he does CLOT instead of more official ladders) or Assumption B (he is not as intelligent/aware as i had hoped).

what other reason is there? why would he spend so much time on CLOT and a few other things if replicating other ladders' code (with a few tweaks) and simply replacing the template would take less time?

uservoice? why do people think uservoice is useful? i dont share that belief.

this thread: gnuff thinks a 3v3 eu ladder could be implemented. it wont happen. i'm guessing as to why it wont. gnuff then asked about uservoice. i doubt that is worth his time. feel free to show me where uservoice has accomplished anything of significance that fizzer wasnt already planning. i dont think uservoice serves any purpose aside from giving fizzer a way to deal with suggestions so he doesnt have to deal with as many emails or forum questions.
WL 2.0 new ladder?: 7/23/2013 07:49:21


powerpos
Level 48
Report
Yes Qi, people who disagree with you lack intelligence and 3v3 europe is in high demand even though the only objective measure of that we have is uservoice which disagrees with that ...

If you realy want that ladder so bad, instead of trolling, follow PS's example and make one with CLOT instead of expecting someone else(Fizzer) to make it for you.
(75% luck please so i can join)
WL 2.0 new ladder?: 7/23/2013 08:13:18


ps 
Level 60
Report
Qi: My belief is that Fizzer is aware every person has their own favorite settings and that it's impossible to satisfy everyone, so the official ladders are what makes sense to him (or in his opinion to the majority of the community) and CLOT opens the door to whoever else that also wants to play ladder master to do their own thing without having to create games manually. In a way it delegates some of the complex game creation responsibility to the users, which frees him to focus on other things. I have read him state several times that if there is enough demand for 3vs3 ladder he will create it. I would argue at this point that having had nearly 10 teams on my 3v3 eu CLOT (which only active people in the forum knew about) would be enough to convince him, but apparently he's still not that convinced. I hope Gnuffone can get enough uservoice votes to prove him otherwise.

Now you claim uservoice is useless. That's BS. What other measurements of public demand can Fizzer have without uservoice? Counting manually the number of forum complaints? Spending hours arguing with veteran players online? All that takes precious time away and would still only give him subjective opinions. Uservoice is more autonomous and still allows anyone to go off and rally a crowd to support something they believe in. A big demand will have to be addressed sooner or later. You fear that it's ignored, but it's the only channel you truly have, if you don't use it that's your fault, not his.

I actually believe you are just bitter because Fizzer doesnt consult you for his decisions regarding a site you visit regularly. I suggest you get over it, it's his site, not yours. Fizzer has the whole community to think about, not just you.
WL 2.0 new ladder?: 7/23/2013 08:20:57

Qi 
Level 55
Report
powerneg, i dont think there will be a ladder. i'm simply guessing why this is the case. uservoice is a joke, so any conclusion anyone makes from it is not worth much. there are numerous other objective measures of demand for a new ladder (uservoice not being the most important). and i can't program, so there is no need for your rhetorical demand.
WL 2.0 new ladder?: 7/23/2013 09:51:36

Qi 
Level 55
Report
ps, uservoice is incredibly useful for fizzer. it makes the site seem professional. it is a place for people to post ideas. it saves him time. some people believe in it and get satisfaction from posting ideas there. i said all that already.

but its intended purpose has to do with new things for the game. find 10 things on uservoice that fizzer created THAT HE OTHERWISE DID NOT ALREADY HAVE PLANNED OR WOULD NOT HAVE CREATED ANYWAY. find 10 things fizzer did that nobody (or only a small group of his confidants) knew about. fizzer's modus operandi is to do things he believes in or based on ideas he gets from people he plays with/talks to. there is no proof (that i'm aware of) that uservoice has led to significant improvements in the game (unless fizzer honestly says so himself). there is proof that fizzer has made changes to the game based on his conversations with 'friends' he plays games with and from what he reads on the forum. and that is the way it should be.

prove to me that uservoice is useful in getting and then implementing new ideas and i'll change my mind. but just because it is called uservoice and we expect it to lead to changes in the game based on a democratic process of voting doesnt mean it works that way in reality. the only vote that matters on uservoice is fizzer's. and if uservoice didnt exist, i doubt the site or game would be different in any significant way.

your last paragraph is funny. none of your assumptions about me are true. but i enjoy reading about your caricature of me. i think this is why aranka gets so involved in the threads. she probably has fun with the caricatures of her.
Posts 1 - 26 of 26