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Warlight 2.1: 11/11/2014 11:43:24


szeweningen 
Level 60
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So, any thought on the new "no-luck" policy? Personally for me it's a great change that will influence Warlight long-term, since it'll mostly affect newer players and push them towards competetive gaming, which is the biggest force keeping players around. I remember times when we had real problems with settings up competetive 3v3 games, always playing on 75% luck, now that is a change i can get behind. Only thing I'm a bit worried is the "no-luck" cyclic move order. I was never a big fan of cyclic move order since it makes the strategy a bit more shallow, "no-luck" cyclic move order pushes it a bit further. There are multiple scenarios when it is to your advantage to have a first move on the first turn, for example if you can prevent your opponent from finishing a bonus, that feels like an artificial change that'll force people to focus on when to commit orders. At the very least that setting has to be used with great care as it does not suit all templates (for example current seasonal ladder template would likely be broken because of that).
Warlight 2.1: 11/11/2014 11:57:15


Green 
Level 56
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While I don't think it's appropriate for a 'no-luck' Warlight, I've always been in favour of Chris' weighted move idea. http://warlight.uservoice.com/forums/77051-warlight-features/suggestions/5986185-weighted-move-order

With 'no-luck' Warlight, the 1st pick is still decided randomly isn't it?
Warlight 2.1: 11/11/2014 12:04:06

Hennns
Level 58
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nope:

"In no-luck cyclic move order, the initial order of the cycle is determined by how fast each player plays during their first turn (or during territory distribution if it’s a manual distribution game). Whoever plays fastest will be placed 1st in the first move order, and the second fastest player will be placed 2nd, etc. After the initial order is determined, move order will simply swap back and forth just as it would in cyclic move order."

In my mind, first in move order would get first pick, right? (or is that wrong?)

Edited 11/11/2014 12:05:47
Warlight 2.1: 11/11/2014 12:06:40


Green 
Level 56
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Ok, thanks. I wasn't sure whether this was just relevant to the move order after the picking stage is done or whether it actually effected what picks you got.

This is good.
Warlight 2.1: 11/11/2014 13:39:44


Mudderducker 
Level 57
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woop woop an investor.
Warlight 2.1: 11/11/2014 13:40:51


Krzysztof 
Level 66
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So in multiday game
1. Join when your opponent is offline
2. Start picking
3. Make screenshot of map and commit fast any picks
4. Rethink your picks
5. Modify order, quick make new picks
6. Enjoy your 1st pick

Don't like it
Warlight 2.1: 11/11/2014 13:48:44


Lawlz
Level 40
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Seems like there's always something to complain about :/
Warlight 2.1: 11/11/2014 13:54:43


Krzysztof 
Level 66
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Well, i'm not complaining, just don't like this option. There are many options i don't like so i just don't join games with it. I will start complain only if this will be used in ladder games:P
Warlight 2.1: 11/11/2014 14:21:06


Mirror 
Level 59
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I don't think so

"If you modify your orders on the first turn, it will extend your total move speed to encompass the entire time from when you begun until your final commit. For example, if you begin taking your turn at 1:00pm and commit at 1:10pm, your play speed will be 10 minutes. However, if at 1:30 you change your mind and change your orders/picks, your play speed will update to 30 minutes"
Warlight 2.1: 11/11/2014 14:31:07


Master Ree 
Level 58
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Mirror is right. Even if you don't change any picks and just click modify and then re-commit, it would reset the order based on your new time. That is how it has always been with average turn speed so it makes sense for it to continue.

Therefore Krzychu, it wouldn't be beneficial to commit fast picks because if your opponent happens to come on and commit, yes you have first pick but you would be stuck with those picks (worth the risk?). If you modify, it's like you never quick-picked.
Warlight 2.1: 11/11/2014 14:59:59


AbelToy
Level 51
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To me, WarLight has always been about a bit of luck, just like Risk or other strategy games.

That's bad news to me.

Also, this is much harder for new people. Oh well.
Warlight 2.1: 11/11/2014 15:11:08


Odin 
Level 59
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So, in a multi-day game, to minimize nominal thinking time, open the game with an alt before clicking "begin" as you will presumably see the warlords. After you have decided your picks, login with your main account and commit them.

In case you don't want to have 1st pick, join fast and wait for longer than your opponent. Extend waiting time with a few vacations if necessary.
Warlight 2.1: 11/11/2014 15:16:41


Timinator • apex 
Level 64
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i really hope that work-around isn't technically possible :x
Warlight 2.1: 11/11/2014 15:22:53


Mirror 
Level 59
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Maybe it is just too much fuss about just one option.

So if it will be problematic, i will just don't join games with no/luck cyclic order.

There is always lot of games going :)

And 0% luck is better than 75%. Although i prefer some randomness in game.
Warlight 2.1: 11/11/2014 15:26:16

Pulsey
Level 56
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wrong account, Odin? ;)
Warlight 2.1: 11/11/2014 15:31:46


The Great Pulsius 
Level 57
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What are you implying Pulsey??
Warlight 2.1: 11/11/2014 20:46:55

Fizzer 
Level 58

Warzone Creator
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So, any thought on the new "no-luck" policy? Personally for me it's a great change that will influence Warlight long-term, since it'll mostly affect newer players and push them towards competetive gaming

Yep, that's part of the goal!

The main goal of the no-luck cyclic move order is to be able to play WarLight games that have no randomness at all.

With cyclic move order, there's only one random roll throughout the entire game: who goes first on the first turn. It's basically on par with Chess in terms of luck (in Chess there's still randomness in who goes first).

For a not-yet-disclosed 3.0 feature, we need to have games with no randomness at all and no influence from outside of the game (i.e. ladder rating can't be used, etc.). This was the best way I could come up with, but I'm open to suggestions if anyone has a better idea.

So, in a multi-day game, to minimize nominal thinking time, open the game with an alt before clicking "begin" as you will presumably see the warlords. After you have decided your picks, login with your main account and commit them.

You're right this is a flaw with the current implementation. This can easily be fixed though by just not letting spectators see the game until all players have clicked begin.
Warlight 2.1: 11/11/2014 21:42:16

GreenTea 
Level 60
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Like in chess playres know what color they play, the same way warlight game can inform players (on stage of starting picking) what start bonus they got: 1) first pick. or 2) first turn. In this case luck will be minimized, because players will be prepared beforehand.
Warlight 2.1: 11/11/2014 22:54:01


szeweningen 
Level 60
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I agree, it'd be easier if we just had cyclic order with an information about first pik given immediately after picking stage.

For a not-yet-disclosed 3.0 feature, we need to have games with no randomness at all and no influence from outside of the game


Oh, please, please let it be playing warlight for cash stakes :)

Edited 11/11/2014 23:00:47
Warlight 2.1: 11/12/2014 00:06:20


Ace Windu 
Level 56
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Removing luck by default streamlines the game somewhat, making it easier for new players to wrap their head around it. This streamlining(probably not the correct word) also aligns with the more hardcore playerbase so this is all-good, all-around.
Warlight 2.1: 11/12/2014 00:12:00


Genghis 
Level 54
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We're really " lucky " to have zero-luck standard games...

baDUMtsss....
Warlight 2.1: 11/12/2014 02:58:39

qwed117
Level 49
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@scze(blahblahblah

Fizzer shouldn't have to say this a million times (sorry if I am overreacting)
In the US, it is illegal to have online gambling (and child gambling), in certain states (and everywhere,respectively). Putting in the regulation would be a hassle, and as such, Fizzer won't ever put gambling in.

And based on the number of alcoholics revealed in the "Stoptober", it's probably for the better

@Fizzer,Although, I can't wait for the Warlight 3.0,the "Investor" business isn't my cup of tea. Who knows who the investor is ON THE INSIDE (he might be as evil as Romney). And now you're a corporation, imagine the hell (and privileges). This is going to be a great undertaking, and I hope that I can support you, but I am not sure
Warlight 2.1: 11/12/2014 03:30:22


Genghis 
Level 54
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evil as Romney


Warlight 2.1: 11/12/2014 04:01:36


The National Socialist
Level 54
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Does this mean new accounts will start with 0% luck and cyclic move order unlocked and will have to work to unlock 75% luck and random move order, or is just that from now on games will default to 0% and cyclic, meaning new accounts will already have the full range unlocked?
Warlight 2.1: 11/12/2014 05:16:24


Dutch Desire
Level 59
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I have always been a big fan of low luck games(luck modifier 0%, straight round, cyclic move order, manual distribution) and therefore i like the change that the Randomness is now off by default.


How i have understands it, The no-luck cyclic move order is not solving the randomness in when players choose the same startplaces.
So, the only way to play with no randomness at all, is when you have play on a map with two halves that are equal to each other and where the startplaces are also equal to each other. (just like a chess board.)

For me, the picking stage is half of the fun, so i dont think i will play much games like that.

I will also avoid no-luck cyclic move order, the "Whoever plays fastest will be placed 1st in the first move order" will only make the picking phase more frustrating and will probably result in a slower start.
Warlight 2.1: 11/12/2014 05:42:03


Pushover 
Level 59
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I like the idea of no-luck cyclic move order in a real time game with honest players. Probably not a good idea in multiday... I think the typical cycle move order is better generally.
Warlight 2.1: 11/12/2014 07:30:07


his balls. 
Level 60
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I remember posting ages ago about a map with fixed equal starts. I was hoping to strategies to evolve over time like chess.

Gone off this idea a bit now though because i just don't think there is enough variation in warlight. I imagine a competetative scene working out the best strategies pretty quickly. It would have to be a very clever map/set up where every strategy had at least one counter.

I guess id still quite like to see this happen. At least until the community found the best strategy.
Warlight 2.1: 11/12/2014 07:44:08


Lawlz
Level 40
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eww, I bet qwed voted for Obama :p
Warlight 2.1: 11/12/2014 15:10:15


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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Personally I like the changes. Though as Green said I would really like to see an option between cyclical and random move order...my weighted option. So it would have some luck involved but you would hopefully not have someone keep getting first move on you.

I really like this a lot though because I think the biggest problem is so many people playing bad templates to start out they don't learn.
Warlight 2.1: 11/12/2014 15:16:53


Latnox 
Level 60
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