Gnuffone,

The way I see the Nation's Cup is that it's about the strongest team winning. If there's a team of moderately strong players who help each other perfectly, I'd rather see them win than a team with only very strong players..., who constantly argue and fight in team chat and simply refuse to help their teammates when necessary, because they care more about their ego than about the team.

Regarding puppets and alts (is there really any difference, practically speaking?): dunga doesn't allow it, so don't do it. Having said that, for all *I* care, go right ahead... it won't work. One players controlling (directly with alts, or indirectly with puppets) the whole team will not be able to beat a team of moderately strong players who work as a team. I don't care how smart someone is; there's no way for one person to out-think five reasonably smart and experienced opponents who work together. There's no way for one person to consider as many radically different strategies as five people can come up with. And maybe most importantly, team mates are a perfect sounding board if you are unsure whether a particular plan is a good one.

Speaking of teamwork, if you cannot convince one of your team mates about changing their orders, there's actually many possibilities:

• Your team mate prefers another style; it's not the way you would play, but their orders are just as "valid" as yours. In this case, you shouldn't even have asked them to change their orders.
  
• Your idea is actually better, but you still cannot convince your teammate, because he lacks the insight to understand why your orders are better.
  
• Your idea is actually better, but you still cannot convince your teammate, because you need to work a little more on your leadership skill.
  

Sorry to be blunt, but in each of these cases, that simply means you are probably not the strongest team and because of that, not yet ready to win the Nation's Cup.

RvW, what are you on about...

One players controlling (directly with alts, or indirectly with puppets) the whole team will not be able to beat a team of moderately strong players who work as a team

Of couse 1 person playing as 5 players can beat 5 different players, if anything the moves are more directly coordinated because he knows the thinking behind each player, what they are trying to do and what they will do in a couple turns. The only downside is if the 1 player overlooks something then all 5 players in that team misses it.

I'd rather see them win than a team with only very strong players..., who constantly argue and fight in team chat and simply refuse to help their teammates when necessary, because they care more about their ego than about the team.

Someone who does that is in no way a a very strong player... strong players know what is most beneficiary for the win, don't care about getting eliminated in the process if it means they distract 2 or 3 enemies while some team-mates expand freely. they only pick coutners for 3 good bonuses and occupy enemies without caring for themselves. a win is a win, whether you get eliminated or not. Please show me a game with a very strong player who cared more about their "ego" instead of going for the win....

Regarding puppets and alts (is there really any difference, practically speaking?)

Puppets need to make some decisions of their own, alts don't, large difference. Not every single move is dictated to a puppet, the leader doesnt have enough time to type every single part down.

@RvW: the difference between puppet and alts is easy:
alts = an account moved directly from themselves.
puppet = teammate that listen you for the most important move, like if attack/defende or expand, if is better mirror pick or pick some different cluster etc. But he make his move in their own like Hedja say.
And alts are don't allowed, puppet is allowed...

And you are wrong for sure about that 5 good player are better then 1 with alts.
I make many game against team formed to top player like myhand/sze/gui/salahdin/hhh against me+me or me+me+me. And i win more then 50% of that game.
Play with alts IS A BIG ahead.

A pity that i cannot show it to you winning with 4 alts Nation Cup, Dunga will never allowed me to do it :/

I believe that downside compensates for the potential upsides and a pretty big difference in skill level on top. Sure, a "grandmaster" can still wipe out five newbies (just look at the final challenge level in single player), but I really doubt one of the best players on here can single-handedly ("single-mindedly") beat a team of five pretty good players, playing as a team. Even if none of those five stand any chance at all against him in a 1vs1.

Let me rephrase: "a team with only players who are very strong 1vs1..., [but make a lousy team]". And yes, that's exactly my reasoning: knowingly and willingly fight a losing battle, to ensure your team's victory is a perfect example of teamwork.

Don't underestimate the amount of work some people are willing to put into perfectionism (and/or ego tripping)!

A pity that i cannot show it to you winning with 4 alts Nation Cup, Dunga will never allowed me to do it :/

You could still invite the winners for a "demonstration match". Even if you use games with the same settings as NC, it's not actually part of NC, so you can play as you+you+you+you+you. Of course the opponents would have to voluntarily accept the challenge (it's not a part of NC after all), but if you can talk them into it, go ahead, why not? It would be a nice way of testing (proving / disproving) the theory.

(Apologies for the double post.)

I'm not even going to bother replying to Gnuffone since that'll accomplish very little.

@Aranka: I know. I have that thought about that, but I don't think that there is a workable objective manner of determining the seeds. It'll end up being a subjective verdict of dunga and perhaps one or two peers based on reputation/skill for things to run smoothly. An objective seeding system would imply preliminary rounds, which is just the thing we wanted to avoid. I probably don't like a subjective seeding system as much as you do, but in order to get this to work it is a necessary evil, so to say.

One way or another, the seeding will be necessary to avoid big teams clashing early on. Such a system is used for many tournaments and this one should be no different.

@RvW:
Yes i want use the same setting ofc.
I don't know if the Brazil and Norway that are on finals of the past nation cup are interest in this, but i hope they will play ;)

about in how many settings a player can play the calculation is simple.

We have 5 players at 5v5, 3 at 3v3, 2 at 2v2, 3 at 1v1. Total 13 spots.
If we limit to 2 events/player is not possible because 5x2 = 10 spots.

To limit it has to be 3 events, since 5x3 = 15, making it possible.


And i have to think about the challenge, at this moment i wouldnt know what to answer

Limit could be 4, and i think could be a good compromise between no limit and 3.
About challenge, anyway until 15 july i am busy with exam. After i will have a lot of free time, and i hope you accepte it, and Norway too ;)

there are 2 3v3s and 2 2v2s, so there are 18 spots. unless both teams must include the same players?

Nope, they can put 2 different team for 3v3 and 2v2.

the limit cannot be 3 then

unless you have 6 players in your team so you can make it 3

But the minimum player is 5 :/
So Brisk is right, cannot be 3.
I think limit the number of games that one player can play, give you many difficulties for teams with fewer players...

yes but the minimum is 5 players in each team, so we mustn't make the limit 3 because then teams with 5 players won't be able to play.

I agree with limit of 4 games. You cant require a team to play 6 people

So is there a USA team or is it still in regions? I am currently on the west USA team, but if 1 strong USA team is being made then I would like to be considered for it.

@ChrisCMU - Are you captain of the central USA? Maybe you can coordinate with VIW Seahawks (captain of the west USA) and whoever the east USA captain is.

EZPickens, I am the captain of Central US, Chris is filling in for me while I am gone. This is the one day between two trips for me so I am here just for today and won't be back for a week.

is there any Australian team???

Team Serbia will have 7 players. Ok?
Where to post list of players?