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Interesting Board: 4/28/2013 13:28:51


x 
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There was already a forum topic for interesting strategic 1v1 boards but I can't find it now, so I made a new one.

http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=4194565

THREE first turn bonuses: what do you pick?
Interesting Board: 4/28/2013 14:24:49


Ⓖ. Ⓐrun 
Level 57
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For me it is an obvious choice to go for the Central America: No wasteland or rubbish bonus, and the only counters are bad bonuses too.

Central America > South America > India > China > East China > Scandinavia.
Interesting Board: 4/28/2013 14:30:23


[WM] Gnuffone 
Level 60
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1 antartica
2 australia
3 CA
4 scan
5 greenland
Interesting Board: 4/28/2013 14:30:42


[WM] Gnuffone 
Level 60
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6 SA
(sorry for double post)
Interesting Board: 4/28/2013 14:51:10


Ⓖ. Ⓐrun 
Level 57
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On my picks, India > China should be Antarctica > Australia (thought there were three first turn bonuses not four).
Interesting Board: 4/28/2013 15:19:59


Timinator • apex 
Level 64
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maybe arun will enlight me, but i don't see how to first-turn anything in Asia
Interesting Board: 4/28/2013 15:25:21


Ⓖ. Ⓐrun 
Level 57
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I always think Xinjiang connects to India. My mistake :/

My picks stay would then be: C. America, S. America, Antarctica, Australia, Scandinavia, East China.

Could a good player tell me the flaws of my picks and how to improve them? I notice Gnuff picked different to me.
Interesting Board: 4/28/2013 16:00:53


x 
Level 58
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Not sure if mine or gnuff's 4-5-6 is better, I think mine is slightly better.

@timmy you can get west china or first turn, as long as the 2v2s work out for you. wastelanded east russia though :/

indonesia first turn too. only two picks and one 2v2. not bad.
Interesting Board: 4/28/2013 17:41:18


Luxis • apex 
Level 51
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I agree with you Cat, for the simple reason that getting your 6 means you did not get your 4 nor your 5 meaning you have effeciently countered what your opponent most likely considers a safe enough FTB.

Even if he doesn't go for the bonus, you have still denied him Scand and probably Greenland too, meaning you're 2v1 safe bonuses, which should lead any decent player into victory.
Interesting Board: 4/28/2013 17:59:36


Jacob the Fearless
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Well Arun, Central America is easily countered from the United States. Nearly any good player would go Australia/Antarctica first and it is the obvious choice. It's the only first turn bonus that can't be countered turn 1. I personally would pick identical to Catbus. Safe first 2 if your opponent is bad, and if he is good, then you each have one pick there and it comes down to the other picks. 3 in central america is good because you can scout South America easily. And the 4/5/6 picks are perfect, if you get your 4 and 5, you have a first turn bonus, and chances are it won't be countered. If you get 6, you can easily counter Scandanavia first turn. Just my two cents. I like seeing different boards and analyzing how to pick them :)
Interesting Board: 4/28/2013 18:02:55


Ⓖ. Ⓐrun 
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I didn't think any player would pick the USA: They are some of the worst bonuses on the map. For that reason I thought Central America was safer :/
Interesting Board: 4/28/2013 18:10:03


Jacob the Fearless
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Nobody any good would pick east us to expand. But it is a perfect counter to south america and central america first turn bonus. In fact, another pick structure that would work well includes that, 1/2 in Australia/Antarctica, 3 in Scandinavia, 4/5 in central america/south america, and then picking east us as 6 to counter the bonus. Or as some less experienced players would do (I did this kind of style a few months ago until I got burned on it a couple times), 1/2 in Australia/Antarctica, 3/4 in south america/central america, 5 in east us, 6 in Scandinavia. That style works a lot of times, but occasionally, you might end up with both central america and east us, or south america and east us, both of which would put you in a bad position. But some people do pick that way and so you have to know how to keep them from being able to counter you.
Interesting Board: 4/28/2013 18:22:17


Ⓖ. Ⓐrun 
Level 57
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Thanks for the help! May I ask, whose multi are you? :P
Interesting Board: 4/28/2013 18:38:24


Jacob the Fearless
Level 1
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I'm gonna keep that a secret for the most part. I'll just say I'm a good player and I've done well in the ladder before.
Interesting Board: 4/28/2013 22:48:02


professor dead piggy 
Level 59
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Eeyore was on to something. Australia is very counterable. In that game, had he got indo turn 2 then w china turn 3 and go into aust turn 4 he would have won, no? after a snazzy turn 2 11 income what does catbus have? south america and australia, both of which take 3 turns.

I would go for indo, E china, greenland, scand, w russia, CA
Interesting Board: 4/28/2013 23:21:26


Jacob the Fearless
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Yes, that's very true piggy. I like your picks as well. I think there are often 4-5 picks that are the best pick options on the board and it depends on what your opponent picks to see which option would have worked the best. Your way would well against many different kinds of picks.

But let's say I went 1,2 indo, east china, 3 in antarctica, and then 4,5,6 in scand, greenland, west russia. Wouldn't that leave you with 2 picks in the scand region with me in only one up there, and I'd have a safe bonus in antarctica while you'd be stuck with no good bonuses. That's very similar to your picks, but in my opinion, would work a little bit better against most picks, and be devestating to yours.

My point being, there's a lot of good picking options on the average boards. I think often times between good players that pick one of the best options, it's who guessed what their opponent would pick and had picks that worked well against the opponent. Against Eeyore, knowing that he doesn't like first turn bonuses, I would pick as I said in the paragraph above and just hold my advantage for the win. The picks I would use most often (and especially against players I don't know at all) are the ones I talked about earlier on this thread. Oftentimes a strange way of picking can end up leading a weaker player to victory over a stronger one. That's why it's good to have many different styles of picking that you use, because if you pick the same way everytime, you become too predictable and opponents have an advantage and can guess your picks much easier than they would if you mixed up your style.
Interesting Board: 4/29/2013 01:20:52


professor dead piggy 
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I think beating people by guessing their picks or moves is a dead end. You dont improve playing that way, you are being passive by reacting rather than proactively pushing your own ideas. In the short run you will win a lot of games, in the long run you will get left behind.

Yes your picks would be a good counter to mine, but they wouldnt be devastating without you also getting first pick. But why do you think theyd be better against most other picks? If you got your top 3 picks how would you play them?

I would guess the only reason you would end up with ant is because the person youre playing picks a FTB 1 and 2 and then ant/aust 3 and 4. In taht case you dont have a FTB and they do, so early contact is bad for you. ant/aust is powerful, because it has good expansion and counters south america. Almost any set of picks will have it either first or third after a FTB. I would rather my opponent get ant than australia, so I dont pick it.
Interesting Board: 4/29/2013 01:54:33


Jacob the Fearless
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With those picks, I would only play them against players I know are good. Guys who pick like Eeyore and you did that game (You are too unpredictable though), would be beaten by them, and most good players would pick antarctica/australia as 1/2 or 1/3. I think that if I do end up getting my first 3 picks, I would expand in indonesia or east china and wait in Antarctica. I would probably move toward australia turn 2 to see if my opponent is there(assuming they haven't already attacked). I would not use those picks against the average player though, only against good players that I know will pick well.

I think you are kinda true on that, I personally have never paid much attention to other's games, but occasionally I'll have watched a couple of their games before and I'll have a basic idea of how they play which does make a difference. I don't think you can rely on guessing their picks and so you have to have picks that would still give you a decent chance to win even if you guess wrong. But I think it will give you an advantage if you can guess their picks, and so if you have extra time, it is worth it to watch their games and how they pick.
Interesting Board: 4/29/2013 18:04:08


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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Try this one on for size. 4 turn 1 bonus combos with SEA and AA having two options for the combo:

http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=4148146

I was sad we did not get to play it out (he got booted)
Interesting Board: 4/29/2013 19:16:30


Ⓖ. Ⓐrun 
Level 57
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I would have picked similar to you, except with picks 1 & 2 being swapped with 3 & 4.
Interesting Board: 4/30/2013 02:09:49


Jacob the Fearless
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A couple options that pop out at me:

Option1: 1. WC Russia, 2. Scandanavia, 3. South America, 4. India, 5. Antarctica, 6. Indonesia
Option 2: 1. WC Russia, 2. Scandanavia, 3. India, 4. South America, 5. Antarctica, 6. Australia
Option 3: 1. South America, 2. WC Russia, 3. Scandanavia, 4. India, 5. Antarctica, 6. Indonesia
Option 4: 1. Indonesia, 2. India, 3. South America, 4. Antarctica, 5. Australia, 6. Scandanavia

Option 2 seems to be the way I would usually pick if I wasn't giving it much thought.
Option 4 is very good actually, I would usually not pick that way, but it gives an easy route to West Russia and Scandanavia, even though Indonesia takes longer to take. And if your opponent picks South America/Antarctica first, you have an easy counter. Usually I'd be afraid of getting 2 out of those 3-5 picks but in this scenerio, it is unlikely your opponent would take either one of your 1 and 2, so you should be okay.
Option 3 is to kinda spread out through all the bonuses, it might be the best option actually. You will be in at least 2 of the first turn bonuses, and you can guarentee you will have just as many safe bonuses as your opponent.
Option 1 is similar to option 2.

I think all of these options are pretty good and can work quite well, depending on your opponent. I'm sure there are a couple more good options too. I personally think both of your picks were pretty good but I think neither was great. It would have been interesting to see how it played out, I personally think Chris would probably have won in the long run, he had a little bit better expansion options imo.
Interesting Board: 4/30/2013 03:29:14


ChrisCMU 
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I did SEA for expansion reasons and access to both the other combos. That way I could access the one I miss out on still
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