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Weekly topic thread: 4/27/2013 12:59:03


szeweningen 
Level 60
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Hello,

I've seen multiple threads that wasted pages and pages of discussion on irrelevant topics, more often than not everything that had to be said was said on the first page and for some reason the discussion went forward without any particular reason. there are 2 rules on this thread:

i) Posts must be linked to the current topic.
ii) Topics are changed weekly, I will announce them every Saturday.

Have fun :)

Topic 1:
Why can we remember the past, but not the future?
Weekly topic thread: 4/27/2013 13:35:29


Moros 
Level 50
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Weekly topic thread: 4/27/2013 13:51:40


Ⓖ. Ⓐrun 
Level 57
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We can remember the past because we have experienced it, but not the future because it is yet to be experienced.
Weekly topic thread: 4/27/2013 14:11:13


szeweningen 
Level 60
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Moros, the arrow of time is not really an explanation, we can just observe that increasing entropy is associated with what we perceive, but it does not explain why do we remember the past and we cannot see into the future.

Arun, how do you actually know that? Imagine a 3 dimensional ball with 1 pole being the beginning of our universe and the other being the "end" if there is one (for the sake of the argument suppose it is the moment where universe expansion will force electrons to stop moving). If that is the case as we live we travel alongside a curve from the beginning to the end of universe, from a physics standpoint there is not real difference between past and future since time can go backwards just as easily. How do you know that what you think is an experience is not really just a stiff projection of what has and will happen? Maybe free will does not exist and you are not going through life as you want, maybe you're just a passenger?
Weekly topic thread: 4/27/2013 14:16:11


myhandisonfire 
Level 54
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Again this boring topic?
We already had that next week :(
Weekly topic thread: 4/27/2013 14:34:55

Qi 
Level 55
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I remember things that happened in the past and plans I have for the future.

I'm ready for next week's topic.
Weekly topic thread: 4/27/2013 15:00:30

Hennns
Level 58
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Why can we remember the past, but not the future?


I can`t remember the past, nor the future. So I don\t understand the question :(
Weekly topic thread: 4/27/2013 19:08:32

icvotria
Level 5
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The arrow of time is the direction of causality, so any events that may occur at a later date can have no effect on our current state. This doesn't preclude a four-dimensional universe, where time is analogous to space and any reference to past, present or future is indexical, relative to one's temporal frame of reference. Our physiology is such that our experience of a mental state, remembering an event say, requires a cause that is temporally prior to the experience.
Weekly topic thread: 4/27/2013 19:11:19


Ⓖ. Ⓐrun 
Level 57
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But, what if there are googolplexes of parallel universes, one for every possibility of every action?
Weekly topic thread: 4/27/2013 19:13:01


Ⓖ. Ⓐrun 
Level 57
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And our lives are set to follow a certain path through each parallel universe (each of which lasts an instant)? This doesn't answer the question, but is something strange to think about...
Weekly topic thread: 4/27/2013 19:23:24


MilitaryManiac 
Level 57
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Szew, what about déjà vu? Thats basically remembering the future.
Weekly topic thread: 4/27/2013 20:29:34


Ⓖ. Ⓐrun 
Level 57
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Are there any explanations for that phenomenon. I don't believe in any kind of supernatural crap, so I don't believe I can ever see the future consistently but sometimes..... I could have sworn I did exactly that in a dream a couple of weeks ago...
Weekly topic thread: 4/27/2013 20:29:52


Ⓖ. Ⓐrun 
Level 57
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Are there any explanations for that phenomenon?*
Weekly topic thread: 4/28/2013 01:03:09


professor dead piggy 
Level 59
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Noone is playing along with sze nice game and it seems like a shame. I bet the answer is an interesting one.

[a lot of writing and deleting later]

A memory is a group of proteins inside your head. Why cant a future event cause me to lay down a memory now? For the same reason a future event cannot cause any other physical change now. I dont know what that is, it may even be possible.

Or are you asking why we dont lay down memories for future events? We dont know which of the many things that could happen, will happen. If we could work out which of the possible futures was the one that was going to happen then we would lay down memories of the future.
Weekly topic thread: 4/28/2013 01:11:47


myhandisonfire 
Level 54
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In my future memory i remember Piggy quiting warlight.
Weekly topic thread: 4/28/2013 06:40:58


skunk940 
Level 58
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Remembering is simply recalling events, as the furutre has not yet happened you can not recall these events.

However i think he means why can't we remember what we are supposed to do in the future. Everyone has done it: 'I am sure i had to do something now...' yada yada yada. If so the reason is we have no fixsated image to do with it. The past we can assoit senses which aid the memory alot. GThe furture has non of this, just the image.
Weekly topic thread: 4/28/2013 06:43:50


professor dead piggy 
Level 59
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In your dreams stinky myhand.
Weekly topic thread: 4/28/2013 08:44:00


szeweningen 
Level 60
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icvotria, would you care to elaborate? What you said is basically the same thing that was said before, that our perception is accompanied by growing entropy, yet it is the same as stating that we perceive the universe by cause and effect. We see that effect always happens after cause, but why is that? Are effect and cause immanent to the universe or are they only projections of our weak minds that cannot perceive otherwise?
Weekly topic thread: 4/28/2013 11:30:28


powerpos
Level 48
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there is no past, there is no future, there is only an everchanging now.
with the correct use of drugs you can get rid of those "past"-fantasies that plague your tiny human-head.
Weekly topic thread: 4/28/2013 14:37:05


Ironheart
Level 53
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Who here believes in multiple universe theories because i don't i can't live life knowing that somewhere in another universe there is another me doing worse or better than me.And szew you can only remember what you have experienced so if time travel was possible you will be able to remember the future so the answer to your question is we can not remember the future because we cannot look into the future or timetravel.
Dejavu is not seeing into the future it had a reason i forgot(google it you lazy sods)
Weekly topic thread: 4/28/2013 19:13:13


powerpos
Level 48
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another you in another universe, but different ?

that s like me, i m also another you but different, and i pretty much live in my own personal fantasy-world/universe as well. :o

no worriez though, although i m clearly superior i m not doing that much better then you, so you don't need to be jaleous :P
Weekly topic thread: 4/28/2013 19:58:14


Ⓖ. Ⓐrun 
Level 57
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I don't think you understood the theory.....
Weekly topic thread: 4/28/2013 23:03:39

icvotria
Level 5
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Yup, philosophy talk, fun fun!

We can provide a metaphysical account of time that allows for backwards causation: A static view of time, where there is no objective 'coming into being', where future and past events exist as present events exist, and the present is only a matter of one's position is consistent with future events causing past events. In this case, as the events that will happen after a certain point in time, t, which is picked out by our experience of it, exist on a par with t, it is at least possible that events later than t can affect events at t. The provision of such an account shows us that cause preceding effect is not metaphysically necessary; it is a contingent feature of the world that could have been otherwise, and backwards causation is at least metaphysically possible. That being said, there is still the question of whether or not cause preceding effect is logically necessary. On this point, I would say that it is. It is built in to our conceptual understanding of causation that it act in the direction of time's arrow. Consider a temporal snapshot of a ball I have thrown in the air at the top of its trajectory; It is a requirement of its being where it is that I have thrown in in the air, yet we do not say that its being in the air causes my throwing it up. It seems like a contradiction in fact to say that a later event could cause a prior one. So I would say that the fact that effect always happens after cause is a fact that is down to us, that is true because of facts about us rather than facts about the world. If we perceived the flow of time in the opposite direction, we would perceive the direction of causality as opposite as well. We can't distinguish the notion of cause from the notion of effect without relying on a notion of temporal direction.
Weekly topic thread: 5/12/2013 23:29:54


szeweningen 
Level 60
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Topic 2 (forgot to update):
Does free will exist? If yes/no then what does it mean?
Weekly topic thread: 5/13/2013 02:27:18


Aranka 
Level 43
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Yes it does Szeweningen

We're cursed to be free
Weekly topic thread: 5/13/2013 15:00:56


Naomi
Level 40
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We're all slaves to each other.
Weekly topic thread: 5/13/2013 16:46:15


Ironheart
Level 53
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No because if we were truly free i will be able to run across the street while shouting Grehig am the terminator without being arrested or but in an asylum.
Weekly topic thread: 5/13/2013 16:52:09


À la recherche du temps perdu 
Level 35
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Just man up and do it. You'll be fine, I promise.
Weekly topic thread: 5/13/2013 16:54:02


Aranka 
Level 43
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You are still free to do so if you want. Regardless of the fact that it has consequences doesn't mean that theoretically you couldn't do it.

You're confusing being free with the act of it being a positive state or not.
From a hedonistic approach you would be correct but from an extensive approach you're wrong/
Weekly topic thread: 5/13/2013 17:39:17

icvotria
Level 5
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An argument against free will:-

Assuming that every event has a physical cause, and that every event occurs in accordance with the laws of nature, ever event, including actions and decisions made by rational agents, is causally necessitated by preceding events. That is, whatever we do, think, feel etc., it was predetermined by the events that preceded it. Facts about the past necessitate the truth values of questions about the future. If it was predetermined at whatever point in the past that I would write this, then it is not through any free agency on my part that I do. I could not have acted differently, and in this sense I have no free will.
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