As a non-religious teenager in a very religious part of the US, I can say that it's not easy having a different belief than a large majority of the population. Especially in a very rural area of Georgia, where I live, many traditionalist Christian values are rammed down our throats whether we consent or not.

Before Spring Break, the top 2 students of each class are to give a 5 minute speech to the class. When the Senior valedictorian gave her speech about faith and Christianity, the auditorium erupted in applause. I then gave my speech about how the removal of evolution from our Science curricula was an example of the separation of church and state failing under pressure, I was taken off the stage and sent to the counselor's office to be reprimanded for 2 hours. I'm not sure about up north, but in the South it is nearly impossible to have a different belief and be accepted by the majority.

Just my $0.02

In many places (America, the UK etc.), I believe it is still perfectly legal to let children go to a religious school where they will not learn anything about evolution, but about creationism, as fact. I'm not looking for a fight here, but surely that should be against the law. I know it used to be (whether it still is today I have no idea) illegal in some parts of America to teach evolution at all. This is totally wrong IMO. Religion and science should be remain separate, unless they have to be connected (e.g. an experiment to see if religion exists; something impossible no doubt, just the kind of exception I mean).

Well yes, down south it quite sucks when it comes to religous fundemantalism because of the overwhelming majority, also I agree that there should be regulation put on private schools and that raligious schools should be banned.

Your opinions (so far as I can tell):

1. Christianity in America is becoming more and more radicalized.
2. American Christians dislike atheists and therefore lack logical reasoning and a proper understanding of science, because only atheists understand logic and science.


My Questions:

2. Why do you think science and religion are necessarily mutually exclusive? Does that mean every science, math, and logic teacher and student in America is either not a Christian or is an atheist?

3. All Christians are the same? Really? Or only 'radical Christians' (based on however you want to interpret this group) are a homogeneous group?

Kay.. I'm from Alaska, but I've lived in just about every state. My personal views are kinda wacky. I believe in God and Christ, I don't go to church, I've never listened to preachers without questioning them, and I personally hate ever religious person who tries to force their view on someone else.

That being said, I can agree that Chistianity is getting more radicalized because the religious parties are getting desperate. (don't believe me? check some of the arguments against gay marriage.)

I do have a bit of an issue with how #2 on the 'your opinions' is phrased. All but 2 of my friends are quite firm athiests, and I don't hate them. We do debate religion occasionally, but it's mainly for fun. I don't have grudges towards them afterwards and they don't towards me. I don't entirely believe in evolutionism, but I can agree that species evolve. (not here to argue, just stating personal views) I think this also leads into 'my questions' #2... Species evolve, but not necessarily to the entent presented by evolutionism.

And #3 I can speak to personally. One friend of mine who is Christian is Catholic, and she's not very strict on it, but she is firm in her beliefs. (made the pope = pedo joke and she laughed) But then on the other hand you have Southern Baptists. Not saything there's anything wrong with this group, but they're quite firm. My grandparents are Southern Baptist, and you can be of their religion and religious views and everything, but unless you attent their church, you're still a non-believing trator in some people's views.

And Arun's right about the religion in schools, though this mainly happens in the southeastern communities. I went to both a public school and a religious private school in North Carolina, and the only difference was that in the private school we attended church before lunch. But in the northern areas and larger states, the same can be said for evolutionsim being taught as fact and religion a bunch of crap. I've even seen it done in some of the rural Alaskan schools. Seperation of church and state is only a bunch of bs on paper-- it isn't applied anywhere.

So yeah.. me and my weird religious views. Hope that helps answer your questions Qi.

But then on the other hand you have Southern Baptists. Not saying there's anything wrong with this group, but they're quite firm.

Agreed. I would argue that Southern Baptists are the most predominant of the "militant" Christians, at least from my personal experience.

I guess I could agree, they're almost like Wahabis in Islam.

WG Robespierre I also live in Georgia; specifically in Lee County. Its in the southwest portion of the state. Also I am sad to hear what happened with your speech. That would probably happen here too :(

Northeast Georgia here, Banks County. Glad (but not really) to hear I'm not alone.

here isn't the place to explain the details, but evolution happened. period. there's no longer any argument and it's proven, please explain how breeding works for dogs and stuff if evolution doesn't exist rofl.
^i just explained the details, didn't i? :P
as long as religion doesn't force ignorance on people, especially children (personally i think that teaching something that is blatantly wrong in school is abusive, for example), or force them to do things that aren't good for them or promote discrimination of certain other groups, then there's nothing wrong with it. :)

btw robes, that's sooo ridiculous omg o.o
there's this thing in america, it's supposed to be one of the ideals of the nation. it's called freedom of opinion (and speech, but that'd be 2 things)

sorry for double post, but this summer when i visited family in america my aunt said (not knowing i was an atheist) that "you can believe whatever you want as long as you believe in something"... and i think she was trying to show how tolerant she is

I personally think that Americans are mass delusional when it comes to aspects of religion.
For a DEVELOPED country to be so.....simple in their belief system is just degrading for the nation itself. Religion wise America equals countries in Africa and/or Iran/Iraq.
Not saying America doesn't have their share of intelligent INDIVIDUALS but when combined as a group they always disappoint me.

Sometimes it's fun though when this crazed religious attitude is tackled through comedy:
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZmHC75FDqQ <--on the hypocrisy of some church leaders
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ36S3d1CaU <-- hypocrisy of the "virginity pledge"
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMDF3bGyFmo <--- A documentary on religion
And possibly many more...

@Robespierre: I had the same problem in the netherlands for year 5 of high school when I was 14 when I held a speech for the subject "Nederlands" on the topic of "Religious dogma and other fairytale quack".
Although Netherlands is more liberal on the topic it was a catholic high school and they probably didn't like me saying things such as:
- "Looking at the morality of the old testament the SS guys would only seem as naughty schoolboys doing some pranks"
- (with regards to the "sacrifice of Jesus) "So what is god ?? Is he just a theatrical arrogant prick or is he into sadomasochism in that he couldn't just forgive humanity without all the ado"
- (on the topic that Christianity does a lot of good to society as a whole)"Doing good out of a religious belief is selfish. You're not doing it because you're inherently good but because you belief you can thus buy your way into heaven. In the medieval times this was actually not even metaphorical.
It was oke if you buggered children (priest still do though) or killed someone else (bonus points if it was a heathen) - if you paid enough god would still forgive you.
Seemingly they only want money or couldn't care less about the rest!

I ended up being suspended for 2 weeks from high school when I refused to show remorse for my comments.

this is purely meant to be funny, nothing else:
though shalt not kill
now go on some crusades
sex is bad!
now go forth and multiply
xD

I miss Christopher Hitchens. He was a crusader for people like me and a beacon of reason.

I am an athiest and I believe in myself. I rely on logic, reasoning and the knowledge that science and mathematics brings us to make sensible decisions in life.

I can tolerate people who believe in some religion but I expect them to keep it to themselves and not call their beliefs knowledge and especially science. I do think children should not be indocterinated by relgion but instead they are given time to develop their minds so that may make a sensible choice.

Religion should not mix with science and could be taught as side issue to history.

Rp Wordsworth do you like Richard Dawkins by any chance?

You all give me faith in humanity. <3

I would be amused to see how the decline of religion would go if scare tactics weren't used to indoctrinate the youth from the time that they're born. If children were taught to question everything from the beginning, and then were told about religion around age 13. Somehow I think a huge majority would not be as swayed by the concept of "Believe this or you shall endure eternal suffering".

I'm quite enjoying this discussion, guys. c:

^omg! christianity = blackmail :O
in medieval churches they'd have stained glass of a monster eating the bad people to scare the people who didn't know how to read or speak latin :P

Part of my biggest problem with Christianity is the Bible. (And this is why most preachers hate me right here...) How can we garuntee that during the Medieval Ages with the Church being the strongest figure throughout all of Europe, that it wasn't tampered with or changed? And I really don't understand how people can follow a hypocritical book that only references itself xD.

I'm a semi-product of the freethinking teen you're describing Robespierre. My parents have never tried to shove words down my throat (but my grandparents have... just imagine how big of a disappointment I am to them.. I don't cook, I don't clean, marriage isn't the top priority on my list, and I most certainly don't parade around in a dress the entire day looking for a man to do all the 'heavy work' :l).

Another portion for the decline of religion is that the family structure is falling apart, and so more and more children are seeing at a younger age the evils that fill the world, and are finding that faith isn't always the answer. Such as, I knew a guy when he was Mormon. Then he started getting beat up on an almost daily basis for his religion. And when no one came to help (God didn't need calling if he can see everything), he turned Agnostic. A few years later and the boy is a total atheist who despises anything and everything to do with religion.


^ my more non-religious side <3

Which lacks respect, tolerance, humanity, and sympathy most? Aranka's rebellious high school speech? Or Bible Belt communities that impose their views on others? I think they are equally narrow-minded.

I'm fot the church of Satan, 666 yo bro.

With regards to my "rebelious" high school peace I need to clarify some stuff.

I intetionally did it on the subject of dogmatism in all it's aspects - nationalism,right/left wing,deep grounded beliefs in sorority/fraternities and such.
When I then also talked about religion this was flat out refused to me by the teacher....and if there was one thing little Aranka didn't like was the fact that she wasn't allowed to do something which she actually thought was right........soooooooo