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The "pure skill" rules: 9/4/2021 10:33:37


Lym
Level 56
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Hey theire,

I like to play Rise of Rome and I spend quite a long time trying to understand how the pure skill mode is working about picks.
But do you know a place where we can find the algorithm for all the situations ? It would be faster and more clear.
Cause at this moment... it is still full of darkness for me.

For example I just played a game where I was the fastest to click.

Ours first pick was different, but our second was the same and I didnt get it.
That seems strange to me.
Ok Ours 3rd was also the same and I got it. But wouldnt be more logic that in the first contested pick the fastest had it ?

I know also that, if the 3 firsts picks are similar, the fastest get 1 and the slowest get 2 and 3.
But so, in the previous situation, the fastest still get the 3rd...
Well....
Theire is so many possibilities that it is hard to understand them all, and has it is just part of the rules, it would be nice to have acces to it, right ?

(Hey, how many of you got theire 8th pick ? Me, 2 times ! ;) )
The "pure skill" rules: 9/4/2021 10:49:16


Ursus 
Level 64
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It's ABBAABBAABB. So if you get first pick, then your opponent gets 2 after, then you get the next 2 available etc
The "pure skill" rules: 9/4/2021 11:20:22


Lym
Level 56
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Yea, that is what I thought..
But if you red my post, you saw that last game I played, I got the 3rd one.. so it was not like this !
And that is why I am posting this !

Edited 9/4/2021 11:34:06
The "pure skill" rules: 9/4/2021 11:46:27


alexclusive 
Level 64
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Give us the game link and we will explain you why you got what you got
The "pure skill" rules: 9/4/2021 12:00:06


Widzisz • apex 
Level 61
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If you are the fastest, you get 1st pick, then your opponents gets top 2 of his, if they did not select your 1st at all, they just get their 1st and 2nd pick. After that you get 2 more picks, so 2nd and 3rd, unless your opponent already got one or both of those, then you receive later picks. It continue this way until both players have the appropriate number of picks.
The "pure skill" rules: 9/4/2021 12:28:40


Lym
Level 56
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Oh I understood what happened then.. thx Widzisz.

Cause our 1st was different, he get his 1 and 2, then I get the 3rd one even if it was the same.
I get it !

But it is kind of strange for me.. cause I feel he have an advantage no metter I won the race.
He get his 1 and 2, I got only my 1 and 3...
I have the feeling that the one who win should get his 1 and 2...

Well, it is like this, sometime It would have been better to lost the race.. At least, it is still lot of luck in this pick's rotation...

https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=28137440

Edited 9/4/2021 12:39:44
The "pure skill" rules: 9/4/2021 12:50:01


καλλιστηι
Level 60
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The fastest gets his 1st pick.
Then the other gets his first two untaken picks.
Then the 1st gets his first two untaken picks.
Then the other gets his first two untaken picks.
Repeat until both players reach the maximum amount of picks.


In "cycle" and "random" move order, the same rules apply, but the "fastest" is determined randomly rather than by speed of picks.

Edited 9/4/2021 12:51:11
The "pure skill" rules: 9/4/2021 13:47:11


Tac(ky)tical
Level 62
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Pure skill 1st picked is decided by who clicks picks fastest AFTER hitting begin. So even if your *turn speed* is faster, it does not mean you had the fastest picks. Pick order in 1v1 games will always be ABBAABBAABB (and so on). Sometimes it can be confusing trying to look at how picks should have been distributed. I sometimes use a notepad, to write down thoughts, to help me better understand what I am trying to figure out!
The "pure skill" rules: 9/4/2021 13:50:24


Tac(ky)tical
Level 62
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Also it’s worth noting that it is ONLY possible to get your 8th pick if you got your 1st pick (in a 4 pick distribution). If you were to lose 1st pick, you would get 2/3, and if your 4/5 are stolen, you get 6/7. (8 is not possible) Basically, first pick gets last pick too!
The "pure skill" rules: 9/4/2021 14:03:17


Lym
Level 56
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Yea, has I say I understood. Thx a lot.
I was thinking that the ABBAA rotation started only when a picks is contested, but i understand that it is not the way at all.

And I still consider that sometimes it is not good to win the race.
For exemple, about the 8th pikcs, I do think that it is way better to have your 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 than your 1 - 6 - 7 - 8.... who can contest this ?
At least I understand why some peoples are waiting 2 : 59 to do theire picks..
like this they are sure to get 2 of theire 3 first picks..
The "pure skill" rules: 9/4/2021 14:04:26


Tac(ky)tical
Level 62
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If you are unhappy with your picks, try deciding if it’s better to get 1st pick or 2/3 based on your pickset, pure skill is the only template where it is possible to make a decision and try to execute. It isn’t exactly the most *strategic*, that is why a majority of the community won’t play it anymore.

Fun fact: No-Luck Cyclic was added when coins were introduced, as a way for Fizzer to monetize the coins and claim it wasn’t gambling! Coins have since been demonetized, but NLC stayed. It has since evolved into Pure Skill

Edited 9/4/2021 14:10:03
The "pure skill" rules: 9/4/2021 14:04:35


καλλιστηι
Level 60
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You can't have 1-6-7-8.
The worst-case scenario outcomes are 2-3-6-7 or 1-4-5-8.

Edit: Rufus' comment has totally nothing to do with this edit.

Edited 9/4/2021 16:44:41
The "pure skill" rules: 9/4/2021 14:07:03


καλλιστηι
Level 60
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Also, pure skill != no-luck cyclic.
Pure skill must have: no-luck cyclic, manual non-custom distribution, not overridden bonuses (!), no luck modifierer.
We are now discussing no-luck cyclic.
The "pure skill" rules: 9/4/2021 14:08:30


Tac(ky)tical
Level 62
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In competitive environment (1v1 ladder) players who don’t receive 1st pick get a slight rating boost, so I think Fizzer and most everyone acknowledges it is best to get 1st pick, but in Pure Skill you could also make strategies where 2/3 is better (which makes a lot of sense in a big map like Rise of Rome)
The "pure skill" rules: 9/4/2021 14:21:55


Lym
Level 56
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"You can't have 1-6-7-8.
The worst-case scenario outcomes are 2-3-6-7 or 1-3-4-7-8. "


if you pick 1a 2b 3c 4d 5e 6f 7g 8h
and your oppoenent picks 1b 2c 3d 4e 5f 6g 7h 8x

You win the race, you have will have 1-4-5-8 and he have 1-2-5-6 right ?
But yea, you cant have 1 6 7 8, true.

Well, the point is that winning the first picks dont say that you opponent will not get his 1st as well !

Is theire the same rating boost in pure skill for the one who lost the race ?
The "pure skill" rules: 9/4/2021 14:41:39


καλλιστηι
Level 60
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Ask Seasonal Ladder organisers, pure skill templates are rather scarce in the strategic community.
The 1st pick is much stronger on templates where there are very few picks. RoR has like 200 picks, move order doesn't matter at all.

Edited 9/4/2021 14:44:29
The "pure skill" rules: 9/4/2021 15:47:39


Rufus 
Level 63
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Correction: 1-3-4-7-8 combination is not possible in 4 pick game.

Edited 9/4/2021 15:48:48
The "pure skill" rules: 9/4/2021 17:12:40


Tac(ky)tical
Level 62
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Yea you got it pretty much right. and the only time we've seen pure skill on a competitive ladder is for seasonal, and I am not familiar enough with it to know if there is a boost. I'd imagine there would be no boost either way since skill can control whether you get 1st pick or not.
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