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What is the best way to rank clans in CW?: 3/19/2021 18:33:06

Bobby 
Level 60
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I do not like the current system of wins only where clans are rewarded on how many games they play. On the other hand I wouldn't like a straight win% ranking because for example what if only beep beep I'm a jeep played for python? He would win every game and nobody else would have a chance. First let's look at the weaknesses of the current system.

Let's take a look at TSFH. They are currently ranked 3rd with 28 wins. That looks great that they are up there with master clan, and above m'hunters.

... Wait a minute. Isn't tsfh an overrated, huge clan? Check the stats. Yep, they have 44 losses!!! Yet they are 3rd??? This does not make sense.

I have already discussed what would be wrong with both systems so we now look at the system I prefer.I
What if we did it on win% with a minimum game and players participating count? Please let me know which of the 3 systems you prefer. Or suggest a new one.
What is the best way to rank clans in CW?: 3/19/2021 19:25:18


garbij
Level 39
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Clan War Rating, imo. It is wonky but it weights quality of wins (kind of like Elo or QM rating) so it's far better than just counting wins (like territory ranking does) or looking at win%. If you have Muli's userscript and use the Search button on the Multi-Player Dashboard, on the Clans tab it ranks by Clan War Rating. Of course, from a game design perspective, just ranking clans by Clan War Rating (for the purpose of rewards) would change the incentive structure of Clan Wars and probably hamper participation. But if you're just trying to capture a predictive snapshot of which clans are performing well in Clan Wars, then Clan War Rating is the best I can think of.

Here's the top 20 by that:
1. Python - 335.12
2. ONE! - 251.75
3. Lu Fredd - 183.52
4. {101st} - 178.32
5. MASTER Clan - 156.23
6. M'Hunters - 148.19
7. VIW - 143.74
8. FCC - 142.13
9. TLMS - 138.69
10. Avengers - 126.1
11. HAWKS - 112
12. [WG] - 111.93
13. |GG| - 110.16
14. French Community - 103.82
15. [BR] FUDEW - 88.53
16. TSFH - 85.91
17. Vikinger - 81.21
18. Hodopian Dynasty - 75.94
19. ズKING - 75.64
20. German Warlords 75.62


You'll notice this is wonky, because matchmaking plays a big part in the quality of ratings. TLMS and FCC have ratings that are very close to each other but I suspect they haven't been playing the same quality of opponent. One way to tell whether a rating+matchmaking system yields accurate ratings over time is to see if it converges to 50% win rate for as many clans as possible (basically everyone except for those near the top). Hopefully the reason as to why is intuitive: if your rating system is perfect and your matchmaking system pairs players (or in this case, clans) of similar skill, then everyone but the people at the top and bottom should consistently face- on average- opponents of their own skill level and win about half the time.

I suspect this will not be true for the CW rating system, since the rating system is tuned weird and the matchmaking algorithm does not seem particularly sophisticated. Normally these would be fine but when you have very few matchmaking/rating events (4/day) you start seeing the quirks shine through. Throw in the template selection part of this (e.g., the differentiation in skill between clans that go for mostly SE vs. clans that go for mostly MME) and you really have a Clan War that's multiple sub-competitions where clans like EXCEL can do really well by simply not having to go up against clans like MASTER or FCC.

Anyhow, the fact that there is at least a rating system and a matchmaking algorithm does mean that win-rate over time will still be a noisy, probably useless indicator. So Clan War Rating is the best I think we've got, but we should just take it with a lot of salt.
What is the best way to rank clans in CW?: 3/19/2021 23:15:43

Bobby 
Level 60
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thanks. i will make another forum at the end of season one and rank the clans on all counts.
What is the best way to rank clans in CW?: 3/19/2021 23:48:28

Bobby 
Level 60
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this just shows the rising power of TLMS :)
What is the best way to rank clans in CW?: 3/20/2021 07:36:13


Kratt 
Level 61
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Eh no. This just shows your clan can play SE in RT.
Oh and when I say clan I mean 5 players in your clan.

If you want to brag about being the rising power you should join CL.
CL doesn't have SE represented?
Oof.
What is the best way to rank clans in CW?: 3/20/2021 07:49:24

Legolas 
Level 60
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I think the most enjoyable competition would be activity competition. I and a few others discussed it briefly on discord and agreed it wasn't a bad thing. More participation being the main factor, and then win rates and performance as a secondary factor. Otherwise the best clans will be the ones with only 1 strong player.
What is the best way to rank clans in CW?: 3/20/2021 15:52:29

Bobby 
Level 60
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Agreed Legolas. That's why I think there should be a minimal amount of players playing in the clan to compete for ranks.
What is the best way to rank clans in CW?: 3/20/2021 19:04:08

Bobby 
Level 60
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Although I disagree about the activity part.
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