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New map concept: Europe 1000AD: 1/23/2013 13:45:26


Urfang
Level 55
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This will be the base of my new map:



I think there are 3 main factor in this map:

1. the center is safe in the beggining and split the map into two half
2. the left side has small bonuses (fast to take) but low reserves
3. the right side has bigger bonuses (slow to take) but more reserves

And the size of the Holy Roman Empire gives time to preparation before the final battle comes. Of course there will be waterways in north and south too. The too small countries will be left. Small bonuses will have 1-4, mediums 5-9, bigs 10-15 territories. And there will be some minor changes.

So what do you think? Opinions wanted.
New map concept: Europe 1000AD: 1/23/2013 15:50:27


no one
Level 57
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good map idea, but bonuses need to be further discussed.
New map concept: Europe 1000AD: 1/23/2013 16:31:53


Urfang
Level 55
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Yeah this is why I posted it. I think they need only minor changes.

Smallest states will be lost it is sure. I check this map too and here are some differencies:
http://worldhistorymaps.info/images/East-Hem_1000ad.jpg

Here are no "Red Russia" what is part of the Kievian Rus, and the baltic states are united, but the others seems roughly accurate.

I like that this is a tall map projection of Europe, instead of the wide projection what is in the most Europe maps.
New map concept: Europe 1000AD: 1/23/2013 19:35:53


Moros 
Level 50
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I like your other maps, and I think this one will be pretty good! But don't use the map shown above for the landmasses as they are not accurate with how it was in the year 1000. You can clearly see Flevoland, which is a huge piece of land the Dutch reclaimed between 1940 and 1968. That's the first thing I look at when I see a historic map of Europe ;)
But you can still use it for the bonuses if you want, although this map shows others (http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/attachment.php?attachmentid=13255&stc=1&d=1148810040)
New map concept: Europe 1000AD: 1/23/2013 20:40:21


Urfang
Level 55
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Thanks, I want to compare it against other 1000AD maps to get a more accurate view. Your map looks good, just the source is a little bit suspicious (alternatehistory.com)

England in your map is the same as in my secondly linked map, so maybe this is the correct splitting and this seems more playable.

As I see something wrong in Hungary too, because it should be contain only the Carpathian basin without the land of the Gyula and Ajtony, so the northeast edge need a cut.

What I want anyway keep from the first map it is the scale of projection, other things can change, now just talk about it and things will be clearer hopefully.
New map concept: Europe 1000AD: 1/23/2013 21:14:26


Urfang
Level 55
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Yeah, as I said that region was hungarian (called Halics) but in 981 Vladimir the Great of Kievan Rus took the area over on his way into Poland, so in 1000 it was part of the Rus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galicia-Volhynia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galicia_(Central_Europe)

Maybe "Red Russia" in first map is this overtaken way into Poland.
New map concept: Europe 1000AD: 1/24/2013 15:13:47

The-Gifer-Juggernaut
Level 45
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I want invite for test or First game, this map looks amazing
New map concept: Europe 1000AD: 1/24/2013 15:52:36


no one
Level 57
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don't invite theGifer.
New map concept: Europe 1000AD: 1/24/2013 17:02:27


Ironheart
Level 53
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can i be invited too it looks great can't wait till release.
New map concept: Europe 1000AD: 1/24/2013 19:18:48

The-Gifer-Juggernaut
Level 45
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why not me? whats your problem with me?
New map concept: Europe 1000AD: 1/24/2013 20:34:43


Moros 
Level 50
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Haha, I didn't even notice it was from Altarnatehistory.com Good catch!
But I was merely talking about the coastline. The kingdoms, tribes and empires may be very different.
New map concept: Europe 1000AD: 1/25/2013 07:44:14

Qi 
Level 55
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holy roman empire should be divided into its major constituent parts.

roman empire might be better named as something else: eastern roman empire, greek roman empire, byzantium empire.

ireland as one bonus would be nice. same thing with britain. regional mini bonuses could be used there too.

adding major rivers (with bridges) or mountains (with passes) might be cool. eg: loire, rhine, danube, pyrenees, alps, etc.

adding important cities might be interesting too.
New map concept: Europe 1000AD: 1/25/2013 08:45:13


Urfang
Level 55
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Thanks for the ideas, my opinions about them:

Roman Empire: They believed themselves the real descendants of the Roman Empire and called they empire as the old one, but the Byzantian or Eastern Roman Empire seems to me good names as well.

Ireland and Britain: Yeah I think in order to playability some Ireland states need to be united, but borders of England is incorrect in first map, check this, this is more playable I think:
http://www.euratlas.net/history/europe/1000/index.html

Cities: good idea but in 1000AD much more cities were in West-Europe and in east just a few.

Rivers and mountains: Im thinking on it and if it not endanger the playability maybe possible.

Holy Roman Empire: This is a possible solution too, but I like the idea that this huge bonus split the map into 2 half in the beginning.
New map concept: Europe 1000AD: 1/25/2013 18:49:04


Urfang
Level 55
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These are the first changes but not the last:



What changed:

1. The british island. In the original map this island was completely wrong, I think now it is accurate. Maybe a tiny change will be here: Orkney will give a little terrirory to Alba, but I believe the others is okay. I didnt change Ireland yet, Im thinking what will be with that small regions.

2. The east. I removed "Red Russia" because I didnt see this entity nowhere else. Removed Novgorod because in all other map this is part of the Rus. Give some territory to Pecheneg tribes. Made the land of Hungary and the two rebel tribe (Ajtony, Gyula) more accurate.

And I have two questions:

1. The baltic states were independent in 1000 or have they an alliance or personal union?

2. Three balkanian states (Dioclea, Rashka, Bosnia) are independents in some map, but in other maps they are part of Bulgaria. Someone know that they are independent or not in 1000AD?

And if somebody can show me a map about whichever region what contains the contemporary subregions of a state please share with me! Thank you.
New map concept: Europe 1000AD: 1/25/2013 19:43:43

The-Gifer-Juggernaut
Level 45
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will you make a scenario for this one? it will be awasome, i never red anything about baltic states in history, I mean thet they where idipented nations up there...:/
New map concept: Europe 1000AD: 1/25/2013 20:52:09


Urfang
Level 55
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It is sure that there were estes, livonians, lithuanians, and prussians, but this map contain more mistakes and I dont want to let them until dont see this borders in other maps too.

There were many nations in this time who have no ruler class and organized state just live their life under the influence of neighboring powers. Many maps show this region as white where are no states. In this case I will make baltic region as one bonus, just I need hard proofs.

I will certainly find it in the age of internet, just if someone know the right answer that can speed up the things.
New map concept: Europe 1000AD: 1/26/2013 12:27:38

The-Gifer-Juggernaut
Level 45
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source, centenia
i see estonia, wich is under fins influence, southern and in the middle of baltics are the Letts and in the south are Lithuanians, Letts are under Lithuanians
New map concept: Europe 1000AD: 1/26/2013 12:29:23

The-Gifer-Juggernaut
Level 45
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As I know from history, its not roman empire but Byzantine Empire...
New map concept: Europe 1000AD: 1/26/2013 12:40:41

Qi 
Level 55
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byzantines never called themselves byzantines. that is a name invented by historians after the byzantine empire ceased to exist.
New map concept: Europe 1000AD: 1/26/2013 13:35:30

The-Gifer-Juggernaut
Level 45
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Yea, thats a point, ok whatever but still I think Byzantine empire would be more acurate, they dont even have rome...xD
New map concept: Europe 1000AD: 1/26/2013 19:41:05


Urfang
Level 55
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Just tried to draw the first subregions. Have someone contemporary maps about the Caliphate of Cordoba?

New map concept: Europe 1000AD: 1/26/2013 23:32:04

Methex
Level 2
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I like it. Invite me to a (test)game please.
New map concept: Europe 1000AD: 1/27/2013 08:55:15


Moros 
Level 50
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New map concept: Europe 1000AD: 1/27/2013 11:09:48


Urfang
Level 55
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New map concept: Europe 1000AD: 1/27/2013 16:55:42


[WM] แต€แดดแดฑ๐“•๐“ป๐“ฒ๐“ญ๐“ฐ๐“ฎ 
Level 59
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btw - what's described as "dutchy of veneda" should be called "Dutchy of Poland" which in 1025 became "Kingdom of Poland". Venedian times are afaik dated up to 4th century..
New map concept: Europe 1000AD: 1/27/2013 17:43:54


Urfang
Level 55
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Yeah, Poland was kingdom in this time and conquered Pomerania soon, but I dont know exactly that Pomerania was independent or part of Poland in 1000AD.

Here is a map about Venice in 1000, it write that Venice was republic in this time and have some parts of Croatia.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/Republik_Venedig.png
New map concept: Europe 1000AD: 1/27/2013 17:49:43


Urfang
Level 55
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Lol I misunderstood, yeah venedians is a much older name of a slavic tribe, I just confuse it with venetians.

Are you sure that Poland was Dutchy in 1000?
And do you know Pomerania conquered in when year?
New map concept: Europe 1000AD: 1/28/2013 01:22:26


Urfang
Level 55
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Add some territories and waterways, I think South Italy and the Balkan need redraw.



Im looking for a good map about Scandinavia in 1000AD.
New map concept: Europe 1000AD: 1/28/2013 12:11:07

The-Gifer-Juggernaut
Level 45
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I like balkans, I think you should add some territories in France...
New map concept: Europe 1000AD: 1/28/2013 13:27:33


Urfang
Level 55
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France conquered Tolouse and March of Spain in the 11. century but I dont know exactly that in 1000 these entities were independent or not.

This is what I found about Balkan:

Bulgarian Empire
"The new Byzantine Emperor Basil II was decisively defeated against bulgars in the battle of the Gates of Trajan in 986 and barely escaped. Five years later Samuil eliminated the Serbian state of Rascia. In 997, following the death of Roman, who was the last heir of the Krum dynasty, Samuil was proclaimed Emperor of Bulgaria. After 1001, however, the war turned in favor of the Byzantines, who in that same year captured the old capitals Pliska and Preslav, and beginning ub 1004 launched annual campaigns against Bulgaria. The Byzantines further benefited from a war between Bulgaria and the newly established Kingdom of Hungary 1003. The Byzantine victories of Spercheios and Skopje decisively weakened the Bulgarian army and, in annual campaigns, Basil methodically reduced the Bulgarian strongholds. Eventually, at the Battle of Kleidion in 1014, the Bulgarians were completely defeated."

First I gave territories from bulgars to byzantines, but I will give back from byzantines to bulgars to the point of Pliska and Preslav, and I will give Rascia to the Bulgarian Empire. Also I will give Dioclea to bulgars too because I found this:

"Jovan Vladimir (Archon of Serbs) fought to protect Duklja (Dioclea) from Bulgarian expansion, making an alliance with Byzantium; Bulgaria however conquered Doclea in 997 and took Jovan Vladimir prisoner. Jovan ruled Duklja as a vassal of the Bulgarian empire until his murder in 1016."

I found as well a good map about the borders of balkanian states with Hungary:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gesta_hungarorum_map.jpg

And I think will add some extra size to the map in east, just to the point of Byzantine.
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