Surely you can try and make a case for yourself being an A leaguer, but could you simply dispatch any of those in the A league? The problem lies in this: At the top it becomes very muddled. There are many different types of players who specialize in different things and are consistently better in some categories than others. Of course there are those that we can obviously point out to be better, but outside of a select 5-6 people, it becomes extremely difficult to discern who's better.

My advice is simple. Announce your interest to be in the [20] B league, get in, and prove yourself. Perhaps if you can rank at the top of B league, you can make it obvious that you belong in A league. Of course, this requires a lot of dedication. However, is it not dedication that drives you into becoming a better player? Is it not this dedication that may obviously present you in a better manner than some of those in A league?

My opinion is that this A league looks pretty solidly tight with the exception of maybe 2 players, of which I will not name for it is not my place to judge players exceptionally better than I am. It could be ignorance of their entire record that I possess.

As for everyone else in this thread grovelling to join: You've announced your interest, now let the system JSA has created take effect and take your leave of the thread unless you have anything more productive to talk about.

As for Dr. Hyde: You talk bitterly and defensively. You're offended at the fact you're not the center of attention of the thread, nor are you the center of attention of the league. You're bitter because of that. You attack JSA wildly as if the entire league was his creation, his decree, and only of his making. Attack the system, not the person, for your comments have insulted yourself greater than Gui does by creating the Anti-Gui Monkey persona. If these comments seem offensive to you, it's because I am brutally honest. A trait that evokes malice in those whom won't admit fault.

Eheh Aziridine please post that game.

I've talked to Gnuffone about it and he told me that you asked him everything and that he played for the whole team. (I don't know if it is true o not, but he told me so)

And then look how I vanquished Gnuffone in Hungary.

I remember that Yoshi screwed up that very game, and Yoshi (just a coincidence?) is not in [20].

Frankly even if you are the Warlight god, you cannot pretend to play at any good the 3v3 enc after only one game, pretending that is not arrogant but just stupid in my opinion.

Of course I'm not saying that you are arrogant or stupid, because since you have played just a game there, you really don't know how much strategies the 3v3 ENC involves, and you may be a great player and learner but I assure that you juct can't be any good there after one game.

This is because I still believe that even if you are a great player in 1v1 strategic (and if you start playing it, you will become even better in 3v3 ENC), right now you are uncomplete, and this is the reason why you are not in [20].

[The heavens part, lightning strikes and war drums sound as Mars, Roman god of war, enters.]

Aziridine was in [20] and is if he joins again.

Gnuffone suggested the first four picks for everyone. In a real-time game that saves all of us time, and since they were solid suggestions I saw no reason not to follow them. I'm not going to contradict my teammates when I join their team uninvited. It's a simple matter of respect. For the same reason I asked them for opinions on the first couple of moves. Besides, when you know that at least one of your teammates is one of the most experienced players at these settings in real-time, and so are two of your opponents, while you yourself are playing a competitive live team game for the very first time, you'd be a fool not to hear what said teammate has to say.

So yes, Gnuffone made two suggestions to me and I used both of them. He's a good real-time team player - he sees the whole board quickly and can make reasonable global strategic decisions under pressure. Did you try to talk to your teammates? Did they not listen to you? Ah, so you beat up Gnuffone in Hungary - win the battle, lose the war...

Since Gnuffone's involved in a Europe 2v2 with me right now (multi-day, and luckily for me Gnuffone moves just as quickly there as he does in real-time), feel free to ask him how that game's going before you continue to accuse people of having "no europe experience."

"right now you are uncomplete, and this is the reason why you are not in [20]."

I love how you brought up the word "arrogant" right before you said that.

20 season three's first 1v1: Aziridine vs Trollussa.

"right now you are uncomplete, and this is the reason why you are not in [20]."

I love how you brought up the word "arrogant" right before you said that."

This means that you feel a complete player?

Then please proove it. Demonstrate your completeness challenging Gnuffone (that is not an A league guy) in a 3v3 enc with multiaccounts.

I promise that if you will beat him at the best of 5 I will give my spot to you.

Facts matter, words don't.

If you think of being so amazing why then you weren't voted into [20]?

Is there up a big plot against you, or I am simply right, and you are disappointed about your non admitting (just not to say jelous).

By the way what I said was not arrogant at all.

I haven't said of being of any good, I actually was very surprised for being voted into [20].

I just make the logical consequences of some obvious facts.

1) To be complete you have to know how to play 3v3 ENC (since everybody agrees that it is the most complex game here).

2) It is impossible to know how to play 3v3 ENC without having any experience (ENC 2v2 is totally different from ENC 3v3).

Do you still think my statement was arrogant?

Let Arizdne play Trollussa as a play in game. Get some of the basketball nonsense you want into warlight.

Make wager, I'll take Arizdne.

lol I will take the challenge (thing that I never do) once you will reveal yourselves.
I open a lot of strategic games in unusual maps, he can proove your point right there.

Why not just play on the contested maps?

I won't even play in the uncontested as long as you won't reveal yourselves by the way.

Because to see if a player is better than another you have to choose fair but new templates in order not let experience do everything.

I bet, that Arizidne would win it

"This means that you feel a complete player?"

It does not and I do not.

But I continue to find it amusing that you and a fellow [20] player could lose to somebody with "no europe experience." Let's say my multi-account and I played you and some random noob on Strategic 2v2. Let's say you made a couple of picks for them, like Gnuffone did for me, and maybe you even gave them a little advice on the first couple of moves too. I'd still be happy to wager that even with you being maybe the best 2v2 Strategic player around, I'd never lose a game if your teammate has really had no experience with Medium Earth whatsoever.

If ENC 3v3 is really as strategically difficult as you think it is, then you should be even more embarrassed to lose against someone who hasn't had (in your view) the prerequisite experience with that map. Or was Gnuffone just that much better at picking than you team was? That can't be, since you don't seem to think he's [20] material either.

By the way, you cannot blame a loss on your teammate if you don't help them out. That team chat's there for a reason. And to do so in a public forum ain't too classy. Just sayin'.

Was the 3v3 game cities or warlords? If cities, Aziridine's argument in his last post stands. If warlords, it doesn't. Cities: you can pick to avoid pick order luck messing your plan up. Warlords: you can try to pick so pick order doesn't mess up your plan, but it doesn't always work.

Frankly your last statement is so nonsense that it shouldn't even need a reply.

The game was a for-fun one. It means I didn't check my moves neither my team mates' ones.

In my team there was HHH too, do you think then that you are stronger than him, or that he has to feel embarassed for his play as well? (But of course I am the arrogant one)

Really I have big problems in answering you, because you are too illogical.

Are you saying that after 4 games in 3v3 ENC, you do know how to play it, or are you saying that I am a noob because I have lost a game wich I didn't even care and in wich Gnuffone helped you to do everything?

Really your points have so little sense that I just don't know how to answer you, other than laughing.

Plus the fact that you tell me that I am arrogant, it is just stupid because you don't know me, and if you would have done it, you know that one of the reasons of my grow as a player is for my modesty and objectiveness upon my abilities.

But since you have better dialectical skills than mine, you are changing the point of the discussion, and I will try to summarize it:

You made clear that in your opinion you deserve of being in [20] (that is very lame), then I've answered you, saying that even if you are a great 1v1 player you didn't enter 20 because of your lack in Europe 3v3. Then you said that since you have beaten me in a 3v3, you do know how to play it (As i said, and as I hope you will admit, this is impossible) or HHH and me do not know how to play it.

So to resume or you are the Warlight god (wich you aren't) or I don't deserve to be in 20.

But the fact that I don't deserve to be in 20 (with wich I agree by the way), how does it involves you?

So in front of your failure (of I am not responsible at any degree, I was just trying to explain you why the best players of the game didn't admit you in 20, so when you attack me, you attack also them -but yes, I am the arrogant one-), you are just trying to "destroy" other people?

Well that's mature!

By the way I won't answer you in this thread or accept any of your challenges as long as Dr.Hyde won't reveal himself, since I'm starting to think that he is your multi-account, even if I really hope of being wrong because it would be too lame.

---

A final opinion upon the community:

After this thread I just do love Gui more than I did before (I'm female Gui afterall). His attitude with the forum is totally right, he just doesn't care about anything of what is happening here, and he only likes to demonstrate that everybody (included me of course) are really childish as he is, but with the difference he is so on purpose. (Hamlet plagiarizing)

I feel exactly the same (that is why I've changed my name) and from now on, I won't waste time in writing posts as this one, because trying to have a mature discussion here seems to be impossible.

Unfortunately I felt of having explained my points ver badly, but according to what I've just wrote, I don't care.
Think and say of me whatever, and if you are not mature enough to see into yourselves but just to make critiques to others, I will just feel sorry for you.

Glad I am not anywhere near the top 20 to get worked up about this.

LoL. Can i get into a B/C league (maybe im not even good for that but i dont know) :)

Aziridine and Trilussa, there is no reason for you guys to argue. You both are great players. I think Aziridine is probably better at 1v1 and Trilussa is probably better at team games. Trilussa got voted better, so he is guarenteed in. Aziridine will very likely make it in as well. You are both in [20] anyways. There is not a huge gap between A League and B League like many people seem to think. Perhaps Aziridine didn't get voted in right away because few of the top players have seen him play team games. I wouldn't necessarily say it is because he is bad at Europe, because I don't think most players have ever seen him play on that map.

Reza, Not sure where you will go yet. Probably either C League in [20] or Proving Ground League A. It depends a lot on who accepts the invites to the leagues.

Uh-huh, looks like some people are a little over-ambitious considering this is just an internet game... I think that if we can have the next seasons' leagues made by exchanging the top/bottom (say) 3 players between neighbouring leagues then nobody should be complaining about being misjudged - it will be an objective measurement of performance in the league.

Anyway, I'd like to join and I think I could find a place for myself somewhere in the Proving Grounds leagues.

I'd like to participate as well.