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Some questions about the clan/group [20]: 11/4/2012 11:39:18


Mudderducker 
Level 57
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• is this clan still active?
• How many players does it have? And
• Who are they?
• Are the 20 leagues still going?
•How can you join?
• Who is the new leader?

If you know the answers to these questions please share:) I'm just a little confused about them.
Some questions about the clan/group [20]: 11/4/2012 12:48:30

JSA 
Level 59
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1. [20] is not a clan. It is still active though.
2. I think there are roughly 12 players in A League and 20 players in B League. That's just a rough estimate though.
3. They are a league for the best players on warlight to play other great players.
4. Season II is still going on, but I think it is over halfway done, maybe more.
5. You can join by being a very good player. You might ask the leader to join when he posts the results of Season II.
6. Gui was the founder and is leader as far as I know. If for some reason he would quit, I would assume one of the A Leaguers would take it over since they are the best players in the game. If not, I would be willing to take it over, but I think it'd be better if a better player were to take it over like Sze, or Aziridine, or dunga, or myhand, or someone else.
Some questions about the clan/group [20]: 11/4/2012 13:41:17


Mudderducker 
Level 57
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Ok thanks so it's basically a league of good players founded by Gui
Some questions about the clan/group [20]: 11/4/2012 15:29:37


[WG] Warlightvet 
Level 16
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how can i join? =D
Some questions about the clan/group [20]: 11/4/2012 16:28:07


Kenny • apex 
Level 59
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No offense Warflow, but [20] = best players in the game. Most of Apex and [WM] don't qualify so I don't honestly see how you could make it right now. Perhaps in the future, but right now there's only a few players who I'd consider good enough to make [20] atm.
Some questions about the clan/group [20]: 11/4/2012 16:48:31


AWESOMEGUY 
Level 63
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@ {rp} Lolowut

I actually think many of the •apex players and the more "senior" members of [WM] could actually join the clan, but they either don't know how to join, or are just simply uninterested in joining [20].
Some questions about the clan/group [20]: 11/4/2012 17:13:16


Kenny • apex 
Level 59
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I would disagree, the skill level is as it states, the top 20 of the game. As much as I like Apex, I don't see Luxis, Frank, or Brisk making it. (I also don't understand exactly how JSA is in it, I'll ask him on skype sometime)

The Apex members who I'd think would make it: Dunga and Huruey

20 was created by Gui basically so Gui could play people at his skill level and not have to play the ladder, something he despised because he constantly had to play players much below his skill level. (Makes the game less fun, and he becomes less focused, thus he may actually lose out of disinterest.)

"don't know how to join" - Most people are invited or as another [20] league player about it. Which isn't hard for the people that match the skill level as it's likely they're friends with one of them.
Some questions about the clan/group [20]: 11/4/2012 18:41:07

Qi 
Level 55
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20 = 3 leagues of 20. 2 for fun. 1 where the best play. Season 1: A league was somewhat successful. Too many boots. But its primary goal was achieved: more accurate rankings to create more balanced teams for season two, excluding the booted and inviting 35 or so of the best. Season 2: Only 4 or 5 of us invited to A league were willing to play. So it didn't happen. 20 might have been a success for players rated 21 to 60. But if 20 of WL's best are unwilling to play, what's the purpose of it? If someone wants to recreate 20 and uses settings and maps that most top players (who play more than just ME 1v1s or 2v2s) would actually enjoy, I'd join as a new account. But I took the Gui character too far and don't enjoy playing as Gui anymore. But I won't play ME tournaments. ME isn't a top 10 map and the settings and bonus values aren't optimal. If I had married a dull, average-looking girl I imagine I'd get bored with her and eventually cheat or find a better, younger girl. ME is that way. I need a sexier map and settings with more personality.

20 is dead unless someone like dunga or sze revives it or makes something similar or better.
Some questions about the clan/group [20]: 11/4/2012 19:13:20

JSA 
Level 59
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Gui, if it is dead, I would like to take it over. I've been planning on asking you to see if we can somehow incorporate [20] and Proving Ground together. I'm not as good as you or Sze, or Dunga though. So I'll ask them about taking it over first. I want to make sure it keeps going though because it was a great idea and I enjoyed the tournaments I was in with it.
Some questions about the clan/group [20]: 11/4/2012 19:20:41

Qi 
Level 55
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Go ahead. Maybe try to work with them and unknown or myhand. They all have good ideas when it comes to maps and settings. What I was trying to do: use all of the top maps before playing the same map twice, and each additional time the map is played would be in a different game mode (different number of players per game) and with different settings.
Some questions about the clan/group [20]: 11/4/2012 19:35:33

BishesUpInErr (AHoL)
Level 4
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The problem with the original [20] was too many Round Robin tournaments. I got absolutely sick of them. Even though the amount of games wasn't really too much (which probably caused the slow nature of the leagues), it was the fact that successive games didn't mean any more than previous games.

It's more of the psychology behind it: I'm more willing to put in effort into successive games if each one means more than the previous one (I.E. elimination tournaments). Although I do completely understand that RR tournaments represent a player's true ability far better than elimination tournaments, I think [20] would have been a lot more successful and appealing if the tournaments were elimination.

If [20] does continue (under Gui or anyone else), I'd love to continue playing in the leagues, if the tournaments are elimination. If the format stays Round Robin, I'll probably withdraw (the last tournament we had, I literally surrendered at the beginning of every game due to lack of desire to play a RR tourney).

Just my 2 cents.
Some questions about the clan/group [20]: 11/4/2012 19:45:42

JSA 
Level 59
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What if we were to have a set of double elimination tournaments? Like 3 1v1's on different maps, 2 2v2's, 2 3v3's and a 4v4? And you get points based on how many games you win. Would that work?
Some questions about the clan/group [20]: 11/4/2012 22:44:07


Kenny • apex 
Level 59
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My comments about the caliber of player required is more for League A, just btw. (Top 20 player)
Some questions about the clan/group [20]: 11/4/2012 22:49:26

BishesUpInErr (AHoL)
Level 4
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JSA, that sounds good, but I don't think you'd get enough people interested in the 4v4. I'd personally play any [20]-related elimination-style tourneys.
Some questions about the clan/group [20]: 11/4/2012 23:20:17


À la recherche du temps perdu 
Level 35
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Mmmm JSA wich players would you put in the top 20?

I think that this is the biggest problem.

In fact right now this game changed a lot, and there is no more that big difference between the first 50 players (more or less) that allowed to make a fair division in the last league.

I'm saying this, not to propose myself as a [20] player, beacause I don't consider me one of the top 50 players in 1v1 ME at all.

It is just a consideration of mine, and since I like the idea, if you need help for doing anything just ask.
Some questions about the clan/group [20]: 11/5/2012 00:37:42


professor dead piggy 
Level 59
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I still enjoy ladder settings, but I feel like a lot of the people I want to play with do not. What settings did you use in the [20] games?
Some questions about the clan/group [20]: 11/5/2012 00:40:07


{RSP} Nike
Level 4
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i dont think [20] is for the best players. I mean, i''v beaten them a few times before, they cant be that good. :p
Some questions about the clan/group [20]: 11/5/2012 03:06:11

JSA 
Level 59
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I would plan on making one tournamnet for 1v1 on medium earth. I know a lot of people don't like it but it is still the most popular map in the game for 1v1.

Pulsey, A couple games doesn't mean that much though. If you can beat the guys over half the time, then you are probably good enough to join [20].

Trilussa, I think that each league would have 16 player tournaments for 1v1, 8 teams for 2v2, and 8 teams for 3v3. The 4v4 would include 2 divisions and would have 8 teams probably. There would be more than one league though. Like in the past, [20] has had 2 leagues, 1 for the best, and 1 for the guys who aren't quite good enough for it but are still very good players. I think even if I were to invite around 50 of the top guys, only about 20 would accept, because that would include guys like Eitz and Ruthless who are great players but don't play much anymore and are pretty much retired. I don't know how many people exactly I'd invite to each league but I would plan on including Proving Ground as a league for a little bit lower level of players so that guys who aren't good enough for [20] can still play players of similar skill level.

Some of the top guys I would include that I can think of just off the top of my head that would be in A League:
HHH, Gui, dunga, Bishesupinerr, Dead piggy, Azirdine, Ribena, Unknownsoldier, myhandisonfire, 13CHRIS37, The Lollipop Guild, Oliebol, Zibik21, sze, V, Chaos, EZPickens, Lobstrosity, rayguns, Salah, Fatih, The Window Cleaner, Eitz, Ruthless, and I'm sure there are some more that have slipped my mind for the time being.

I will work more on it and ask Gui and dunga and Sze for help on deciding who should be in which league if I don't know the player at all. I don't know when the third season would start but not until the current one is over for sure. I'll also ask Sze and Gui to help me on settings for the tournaments.

Trilussa, I'm sure you'd be good enough for League B though. Thanks for volunteering to help. I might ask for your help on settings or players if I don't know them.
Some questions about the clan/group [20]: 11/5/2012 03:11:13


Clifford The Big Red Dog 
Level 37
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im not sure how good the B league is going to be, but if its not to elite, i would like to play in it
Some questions about the clan/group [20]: 11/5/2012 03:38:45

JSA 
Level 59
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Ryan, I don't think you will be good enough for B League. B Leaguers are guys like me, NoobSchool, Sasha Gray, orinocoflows, Luxis, Julkorn, Ottarin, [WM]czajnik, [WM]Gnuffone, Military Maniac, brisk, dreuj, [WM]Artham, Mentysh, Wazz, Phaeril, Ze, etc. You aren't quite at that level.

You would probably be good enough for the A League in Proving Ground which would be one level below B League in [20]. Those guys would be closer to your skill level I think.
Some questions about the clan/group [20]: 11/5/2012 04:06:21


Master ARC 
Level 57
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ahh...hate to break it to you JSA, but i believe that Ryan is a somewhat better player than you are, and he is also better than some of the players on that list.

Also, that list has a wide variety of skill levels of players. orinocoflows and [WM]Gnuffone are not anywhere close to being on the same skill level.

Don't want to be a jerk, I just think that your previous comment was flawed in a few ways.
Some questions about the clan/group [20]: 11/5/2012 04:14:22


Wenyun 
Level 59
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Proving Grounds is still alive? I thought it died after the season where there was the 3 round robins. :/

Not that I'm good enough for Proving Grounds in any sort of way. :P
Some questions about the clan/group [20]: 11/5/2012 04:18:23

JSA 
Level 59
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Um ARC, tbh, you really have no idea. I have played Ryan multiple times and have beat him every time. His ladder rating is in the 1600s. Mine is in the 1800s. I'm pretty sure I'm better than him...I don't see how anyone can say differently. I'm pretty sure Ryan realizes I'm better than him as well.

I don't think Ryan is better than any players on that list. Ryan is solid but those guys are all good. And Gnuffone is good at team games even if he isn't that great at 1v1. Him and Trilussa teamed up and beat Sze and Myhand at 2v2 today and neither of them is that great at 1v1. I really don't understand why you underestimate him so much.

I know for a fact you are completely wrong on the above post. You aren't a good enough player to have any idea of the skill level comparison between players that are a lot better than yourself.

Kereosa, Season 3 just finished. Some of the divisions took longer than others. I'll invite you to Proving Ground League A this season, as that is about the level I would guess you are at from how you did last season.
Some questions about the clan/group [20]: 11/5/2012 04:23:42


Summer 
Level 61
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Would i be good enough for Proving Grounds, or no?
Some questions about the clan/group [20]: 11/5/2012 04:29:08


Master ARC 
Level 57
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Was about to respond, but that is just a horribly arrogant post. Notice, I specifically tried to not be offensive in my last post, no need to rip on my playing skills. I don't want to start a war with you. Plus, you are soon going to start annoying some people by reincarnating [20], one of the oldest leagues in WarLight, and changing it to your own specifications a few minutes afterwards.
Some questions about the clan/group [20]: 11/5/2012 04:44:38

JSA 
Level 59
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Arc, those lists were compiled from last season in [20] League B and the players will be similar to last season with possibly a few new additions. I'm not changing much of anything with [20] except making it double elimination tournaments instead of round robins which will allow more good players the time and motivation to play it. I don't see how this would annoy anyone. And for your information, it is easily the oldest league in warlight, with Proving Ground being second.


"I specifically tried not to be offensive in my last post, no need to rip on my playing skills"

You were ripping my playing skills though by saying a guy ranked 35 on the ladder is somewhat better than me. You also said my post was flawed in many ways, when there was nothing wrong with it. It is the simple truth. I like Ryan and he's a nice player and I don't mind having him on my team. But he is not at the skill level as the B Leaguers in [20].
Some questions about the clan/group [20]: 11/5/2012 04:46:53

JSA 
Level 59
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Rosa, You're ladder rating says you are pretty good but ladder ratings can be a bit deceiving when you are new to the ladder and have only played 15 games. I will look over some of your games and try to find what division you would be in. If I am unsure, will ask Sze and dunga to help me. I would guess you are at the level of Proving Ground League A but you might possibly be good enough for [20] League B. I'll have to check the games.
Some questions about the clan/group [20]: 11/5/2012 04:56:24

JSA 
Level 59
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Rosa, I looked at five of your most recent 1v1 Ladder games and I would say you are at the Proving Ground League A level. So I will definitely invite you to those tournaments when I make them in a few weeks.
Some questions about the clan/group [20]: 11/5/2012 04:58:36


Summer 
Level 61
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Okay, thanks.
Some questions about the clan/group [20]: 11/5/2012 05:13:32


Clifford The Big Red Dog 
Level 37
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Ya, JSA is definitely better than me, i havent played with many of the players on that list, but the ones i have played with are all better than me
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