<< Back to Ladder Forum   Search

Posts 1 - 11 of 11   
Playing To Win vs.Playing To Not Lose: 5/16/2014 22:06:07

Nauzhror 
Level 56
Report
As per the title, this seems to be something I have an issue with.

This can be seen in some of my recent ladder games, and many of my recent non-ladder games.

I feel as if I am playing "too safe". I get an early advantage, and don't wind up properly pushing it, so the lead gets gradually bigger and bigger (usually) turning into a 20-30 turn game (which I usually win, but not always).

I am currently winning far more games this way than I used to, but, the difference is I used to win off picks, or lose off picks, regularly. currently I lose off picks far less often, but I also seem to no longer win off of picks.

I'm not sure which I need to work on more though, picking in a manner that is solid, but yet not easily counter-able so as to be able to win off picks more often without also losing off picks more often as well or actual gameplay, ie. getting better at pushing an advantage when ahead without gambling too heavily and letting them get back into the game.
Playing To Win vs.Playing To Not Lose: 5/16/2014 22:10:51


szeweningen 
Level 60
Report
I used to win off picks, or lose off picks, regularly. currently I lose off picks far less often, but I also seem to no longer win off of picks


That is a sign of improvement.
Playing To Win vs.Playing To Not Lose: 5/16/2014 22:18:44


Green 
Level 56
Report
Your game against Summer was interesting, with an amusing chat. You're picks in that game were very unusual - not many people double-pick Canada and Greenland, and while I think I see your logic (?) in picking Khabarovsk I'm not sure about that myself. You also didn't leave that much expansion room, but ended up winning anyway.

I'm not so good at analysing gameplay, so I'll leave it to others who are more experienced than me to take a shot at it. Also I haven't looked at many of your games so I can't say that the way you played in this particular game is representative of your playstyle.

Game Link: http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=6247892
Playing To Win vs.Playing To Not Lose: 5/16/2014 23:39:08


professor dead piggy 
Level 59
Report
Yes, you play too safe, I do too. Sze plays so safe that he comes across as haughty in his games. When you say you *don't* win off picks I think you just mean you win off picks in a more long term way. Instead of counterpicking their first bonus you postionally dominate them (when you pick well). Learn to play more aggressively, it helped me a ton. My game against Beel was won by brutish aggression for example. Learn by doing.

Picks need to be not easily counterable - yes, but more importantly they need to threaten to win in a few turns against something. Ideal picks on most maps crush certain enemy picking strategies quickly, while maintaining decent chances against everything else.

Edited 5/16/2014 23:41:23
Playing To Win vs.Playing To Not Lose: 5/17/2014 00:06:13


szeweningen 
Level 60
Report
I think I play as safe as the position allows me to. In general I agree with piggy, I also consider myself an agresssive player, by which I mean if you have the tiniest advantage you need to be agressive in some way in order to convert it. Stack advantage? Attack enemy stacks/eliminate them. Income advantage, trade stacks/bonuses. Positional advantage, trade it for one of the previous 2 etc. etc.

http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=5330318

An example of an early income edge that was a really slight advantage since we did not border immediately, during the game I felt like it was an almost perfect mix of agression and safety. Also your game against Summer does not tell us much about that safe style of picking you're talking about, you leave the decision up to your opponent if he counters you or not. Overall, if with your picks you do not see any alternate picks that'd put you in an instantly much worse position, you should be fine with decent play.
Playing To Win vs.Playing To Not Lose: 5/17/2014 00:08:19


szeweningen 
Level 60
Report
A good rule of thumb I'd give you, the better you get, the less your opponent is allowed to do and the more you are in control.
Playing To Win vs.Playing To Not Lose: 5/17/2014 00:09:24

Nauzhror 
Level 56
Report
I'd agree with that, I'm not saying I am being outpicked when I mention not winning off picks, I merely mean I'm not getting quick decisive wins caused by my picks.

"Ideal picks on most maps crush certain enemy picking strategies quickly, while maintaining decent chances against everything else. "

That is more or less my goal when picking, I'm not sure I achieve hat with my picks, but it's at least the goal. A decisive, fast, win, is nice, but I wouldn't want to make picks that have a 60% chance of such a win and a 40% chance of a fast decisive loss either.

That's not what is happening though, or if it is, and I am getting picks that could decisively crush the opponent I am not capitalizing on that chance.

As a comparison, 4 of my 9 wins since rejoining the ladder have been 20+ turn games.

The Great Pulsius did not reach turn 20 once in his 15-0 streak.

Piggy has not reached turn 20 in a single unexpired win.

Zacatron has not reached turn 20 in any of his ladder wins.

Latnox has twice in his 28 unexpired wins, but one was a game that he had lost in the first 20 turns, and turned around by extending the length of the game and waiting for his much lower rated opponent to hang himself.

Widzisz has reached turn 20 twice in his 34 unexpired wins.

In one of my four long wins I was certainly behind turn 1 (Kantos had me by the balls off picks, I had no business winning that game), but I'm not sure that picks are why any of the other three games lasted that long.
Playing To Win vs.Playing To Not Lose: 5/17/2014 00:13:30

Nauzhror 
Level 56
Report
"I also consider myself an agresssive player, by which I mean if you have the tiniest advantage you need to be agressive in some way in order to convert it. Stack advantage? Attack enemy stacks/eliminate them. Income advantage, trade stacks/bonuses. Positional advantage, trade it for one of the previous 2 etc. etc."

That seems more my weakness, I think a lot of the length is that I am unwilling to compromise. ie. I usually have avoided trading bonuses, or giving on one front to push on another, and have aimed to be ahead in everything, and only once I am have I tended to finish off the opponent.
Playing To Win vs.Playing To Not Lose: 5/17/2014 00:18:56


szeweningen 
Level 60
Report
Here you go, game against Kantos, turn 10, perfect example. No reason to deploy and try to defend east africa. This tur you should expand in east russia and with rest go full 1st order towards south america. You trade your income advantage for a stack advantage near south america, but your opponent loses a positional advantage and soon you'll get 16vs12 income. That way game ends on turn 15 at most.
Playing To Win vs.Playing To Not Lose: 5/17/2014 01:02:17

Nauzhror 
Level 56
Report
Played this one more aggressively, wound up winning much more quickly:

http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=6261932
Playing To Win vs.Playing To Not Lose: 5/23/2014 16:41:05


NeighborFromStateFarm
Level 56
Report
This was one of my most recent/favorite ones: http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=5954768

It's a shame he didn't move for a whole week...
Posts 1 - 11 of 11