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Navy Checkers: Anyone want to test this map?: 7/23/2012 18:12:36

Qi 
Level 55
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http://WarLight.net/SinglePlayer.aspx?PreviewMap=14978

This should be my last new map. I'm running out of time and trying to finish map projects I had started.

About this map: I wanted to make a naval war. I had three types of ships saved from other maps. Given the nature of naval wars, I thought maybe a checkerboard might suit warlight's limitations (for map making).

Let me know if you'd like to test the map and I'll make a game.
Navy Checkers: Anyone want to test this map?: 7/23/2012 18:26:19


Min34 
Level 60
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I would like to test it :)
Navy Checkers: Anyone want to test this map?: 7/23/2012 19:00:46


Moros 
Level 50
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I disagree with your pick of ships. There are three ancient ships, and suddenly modern American ships. If that isn't amerocentric, then you just redefined that word.
Also, there are Chinese and Taiwanese ships, which is not really balanced. And the Taiwanese ships are called ROC in the bonus and Taiwan on the territories themselves. That's confusing.
My suggestion would be to replace the American ships with European galleons, (you can edit this image for that: http://www.hobbycar.nl/data/articles/images/big/b_6635.jpg)
and the Taiwanese with ships from a different culture. Maybe Viking ships? But that's up to you.

And I'm in for testing.
Navy Checkers: Anyone want to test this map?: 7/23/2012 19:49:46

Qi 
Level 55
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- the american ship: monopoly game piece. for fun. copy paste. no drawing.
- modern greek/chinese flag but ancient greek/chinese ships? for fun. copy & paste. no drawing.
- all the ships (greek, chinese, american, taiwanese) were made in taiwan (i'm in taiwan), so i dont see a problem with the taiwanese ships being sailboats called "taiwanese ship." lol

you are confused about taiwan's name? in order of commonness and acceptance: taiwan (the roc has two provinces, taiwan, which comprises about 99.9% of the land, and fujian, which comprises a few small islands, so taiwan sheng/province is an official name; taiwan is the street name -- it's what most people call the island and its people; taiwanese is the adjective used to describe anything on this island). republic of china (official english name, not used much unless in official settings). zhonghua minguo (official chinese name, not used much). formosa (former portuguese name, used for restaurant names and things like that, mostly by supporters of de jure independence). chinese-taipei (a name taiwanese are forced to use in official international settings, bc of chinese propaganda and power). google "taiwanese passport" and see which names are used there.
Navy Checkers: Anyone want to test this map?: 7/23/2012 19:57:37

Qi 
Level 55
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oh yeah, i forgot you accused me of nationalism...i agree, anyone who uses monopoly game pieces as a joke on a board game that is not an actual location anywhere on earth and calls such pieces "american monopoly ship" must be a nationalist.

the worst nationalist ever ---> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Uncle_Pennybags
Navy Checkers: Anyone want to test this map?: 7/23/2012 20:03:27

Qi 
Level 55
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i think a better naval battle might be this:

leaf (the type some use to watch as it flows down a stream)

vs

canoe

vs

monopoly ship

vs

cargo ship
Navy Checkers: Anyone want to test this map?: 7/23/2012 20:19:26


Ironheart
Level 53
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i will like to test
Navy Checkers: Anyone want to test this map?: 7/23/2012 20:50:40

Qi 
Level 55
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thanks regl min. our game gave me some ideas. i'll make a game for ironheart and moros to play a 1v1 once i update it.
Navy Checkers: Anyone want to test this map?: 7/24/2012 05:45:29


Moros 
Level 50
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Do you know the meaning of the word monopoly? It means to entirely control something, and have/claim all rights on it. As I said, if that isn't amerocentric, then you just redefined the word.
And you should at least listen to me. It's weird that there are three ancient ships, and suddenly a modern American battle cruiser. And that there are Taiwanese (ROC) and Chinese ships, when those countries are (well, were in the time those ships were built) practically the same! And I meant that you are inconsistent with the names. You call the bonus ROC, but the ships Taiwanese. You should call both by one name. I'd prefer Taiwan, but that's up to you again.
Navy Checkers: Anyone want to test this map?: 7/24/2012 07:58:24

Qi 
Level 55
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It seems my half-assed attempt to explain this to you was unsuccessful. I will try to breastfeed you drop by drop.

Monopoly is a board game. There is a ship for the game. The ship on this thread's map is precisely a simplified version of the Monopoly ship, with a few minor adjustments. If the Monopoly game's ship is based on a real ship, then maybe you have a point. But it is likely a simplified version of a real ship. And my ship is a simplified version of Monopoly's simplified version. This is the only reason I used the word Monopoly. I always used to use the ship when I played Monopoly. So I thought it'd be fun to use the ship on my Greater Middle East map, to be playful about America's military power. And since I had three ships in my maps (Monopoly ship, ancient Greek ship, ancient Chinese ship), I thought it would be fun to make a game where these three ships could have a naval battle. This is the why I decided to make the map we are discussing. The sailboat was added to this map for the hell of it, because Taiwanese care so much about face that I thought it'd be funny to give these overly proud people the smallest ship in the battle, just like how I gave the mighty American's a measly Monopoly board piece that is a simplified version of an outdated ship that contemporary American ships would utterly destroy (2012 American ship vs 1900 American ship, which wins?). There is absolutely nothing historical about the naval board game I made. It is all for fun.

The names are consistent. ROC = Taiwan. Taiwanese = adjective for ROC and Taiwan. You argue a lot about Taiwan. But China is also using PRC, People's Republic of China and Chinese. And America is using United States, US and American. Should they all be changed? Should the American ships only use US or American, because only one is permissible? (Rhetorical question that means, "What the hell is your problem with Taiwan? Do you even understand anything about Taiwan? Why do you insist that you know more about the country I live in, when the only thing you know about it is that it exists?")
Navy Checkers: Anyone want to test this map?: 7/24/2012 08:54:39


myhandisonfire 
Level 54
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The Don = win!
Navy Checkers: Anyone want to test this map?: 7/24/2012 10:11:24


Moros 
Level 50
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Okay, you still don't get my point, do you?

A: Because it says monopoly, no matter if it's a board game or not (of course I know the name!), it still has the other meaning to it. 99 out of 100 people won't recognize that figure as a game piece. You should either be more clear about it, like putting in the description it's from the board game, or remove the word monopoly from the names and just call them American ships. Why would we want to know where you got that picture from? And even if we did, why would you lay out such a tiny detail in the name? Everyone will read the word monopoly and think not of the board game, but of the other meaning. A different solution would be to use other ancient ships instead of American ships, that would be consistent

B: The names are not consistent. Here it says ROC, there it says Taiwan. I know they mean the same, but they are different words. What's your problem with naming them all either Taiwanese or ROC? Why do you have to use different words? And I'm not talking about the real-life situation out there, I'm talking about this map right now.
Navy Checkers: Anyone want to test this map?: 7/24/2012 10:37:11

Darkruler2005
Level 6
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Moros, after his last reply you should have known he's trollin' (insert offended reply).

Any way, seems like an interesting map. If I find some time I might try it out.
Navy Checkers: Anyone want to test this map?: 7/24/2012 10:44:55


Ska2D2 
Level 55
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If anyone is trolling it's ă…¡Moros, all the Don did was make a map, made it how he wished by including a little bit of sentimentality - (he played Monopoly using that ship) and a little bit of a connection to where he lives (Taiwan). And Moros came here accusing him of Americo-centric nationalism.

And all over a checkers naval battle!
Navy Checkers: Anyone want to test this map?: 7/24/2012 11:00:26


Moros 
Level 50
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He posted this tread because he wanted suggestions. I gave him some. He didn't understand them. TI rephrased them. He still didn't understand. And so on...
Sentimentally means deliberately ignoring flaws, so don't expect it from me.
Navy Checkers: Anyone want to test this map?: 7/24/2012 11:01:15


Moros 
Level 50
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^Ignore my sentimentally definition, I misread your post.
Navy Checkers: Anyone want to test this map?: 7/24/2012 11:36:24

Qi 
Level 55
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Moros, you don't understand what I mean. Let's change roles. Imagine you made a thread asking for testers. What would you think if I say the following, without any reason:

"I disagree with the idea of having ports and airports. They should either travel by water or air, but not both. And the name "Benelux big with (air)ports" makes it seem like the airports are optional. Which mode of transportation is predominant? The title is ambiguous. It's too confusing. And why is it called Benelux in English when all the names are not English? Use only one language, for consistency. And I don't like the heraldry for Flanders. Too aristocratic. Contemporary societies are more open. Reminiscing about the Holy Roman Empire's lion symbol is so medieval, especially since the chicken makes me think you are trying to divide society into castes. In fact, why even have a cock? If you say the word cock to an English speaker, 99% of the people will think you are being grotesque."
Navy Checkers: Anyone want to test this map?: 7/24/2012 12:33:18


Moros 
Level 50
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Haha, that made me laugh :) And, just for the show:

I disagree with the idea of having ports and airports. They should either travel by water or air, but not both.

It could be possible to remove one of these modes. Some have suggested this earlier. Maybe we should have a vote?
"Benelux big with (air)ports" makes it seem like the airports are optional. Which mode of transportation is predominant? The title is ambiguous. It's too confusing.

(air)ports is simply short for ports and airports. None are dominant. But thanks for pointing out it's confusing, I'll add an extra note in the description.
And why is it called Benelux in English when all the names are not English? Use only one language, for consistency.

Benelux is also a word in Dutch. It's an abbreviation of BElgië, NEderland, and LUXemburg. But it is used in many languages.
And I don't like the heraldry for Flanders. Too aristocratic. Contemporary societies are more open. Reminiscing about the Holy Roman Empire's lion symbol is so medieval, especially since the chicken makes me think you are trying to divide society into castes. In fact, why even have a cock? If you say the word cock to an English speaker, 99% of the people will think you are being grotesque.

It is true that the higher classes of (medieval) society made up the heraldry. But it gave people from all layers better ways coming together, and literary fight under the same banner. The heraldry is one of the most essential components of a country, hundreds of years ago and now still. Can you give me any country without a flag or coat of arms? Nauru doesn't even have a capital, but they do have a flag.
Without flags, banners, coats of arms and other heraldry, modern society wouldn't exist as it is today. That's what I wanted to reflect in my map. But if others agree with you I could simply use a different symbol.
Thank you for your suggestions!
Navy Checkers: Anyone want to test this map?: 7/24/2012 12:36:00


Moros 
Level 50
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Summary:
My point is that you disagree with the change of even a single word, when you don't give good counterarguments either.
Navy Checkers: Anyone want to test this map?: 7/24/2012 12:39:48


Richard Sharpe 
Level 59
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Don, I am very disappointed in you. You are clearly anti-American based on the puny naval forces used. No aircraft carriers or nuclear submarines? Highly unacceptable! What's with all the hate towards the superior US navy??

Seriously though, this has to be one of the strangest maps on the site. Don't mean it as an insult... just that I find it a unique map.
Navy Checkers: Anyone want to test this map?: 7/24/2012 13:06:19


The Yellow Team
Level 4
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Gui, that's the kind of map that could have its own game website!

Hats off Sir.

Don't think I'll be playing it but it's clearly taken you a lot of thought so I for one commend you on that.
Navy Checkers: Anyone want to test this map?: 7/24/2012 21:54:20

Qi 
Level 55
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Moros, you didn't need to reply. I didn't actually mean anything I said about your map. I was just trying to offer you a way to understand how your ideas about my map didn't make any sense. In fact, I really like your map (appearance, attention to detail, etc.). My great-grandfather immigrated from Flanders before WWI, returned to Flanders, got caught up in the German invasion, suffered, returned to America when the war ended. I hope to play your map once it is ready, to know more about the place names of his country.

Sorry Richard, I thought that Monopoly ships were synonymous with McDonald's value meal specials, which are themselves synonymous with power! How else can you secure hotels on Death Row (the area of magenta and orange properties between Jail and Free Parking) or make a trade to get or dispose of Boardwalk and Park Place? Obviously, the ship is needed for domination on the Monopoly board!

Yellow Team, if I knew how to program, believe me, I'd have a website of some sort running with exciting competition and variety (and have myhand on board, because his maps are amazing, though he won't publish them). Instead, I'm just another free laborer for Warlight's under-monetized maps. My current motto: "Come play my maps! Don't make any money for Fizzer or me! Complain about Taiwanese who should be called ROC-nese!"
Navy Checkers: Anyone want to test this map?: 7/25/2012 08:46:11

Qi 
Level 55
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After finishing a game with Dunga, we both felt the attacking was one-dimensional. So I added submarines (and their infrastructure) and more connectivity in the middle. Each submarine costs -5 income if taken, and each country's sphere of influence has 5 submarines visible (they connect to ships in their squares), at least 1 for each enemy. So the threat of a submarine attack is present. But only the attacker will be likely to take the submarine to preempt the threat: 9 territories in the submarine infrastructure are worth +5, and they lead to all 5 of one's submarines; but since it costs one -5 to engage in submarine warfare, the aggressor is likely only going to attack 1 submarine, since the bonus only offsets 1. The Japanese game of go has a name for a similar strategy, something like bitter pill (I don't know what it's translation is): a stone that is not taken and ends up causing great harm deep in one's core area. I'm hoping the submarines will function this way.

http://WarLight.net/SinglePlayer.aspx?PreviewMap=14978
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