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Three New Maps of Ancient Greece: 4/5/2012 01:25:11

Qi 
Level 55
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Since my first 100 games, one of my favorite maps for FFAs or team games (usually with autodistribution) has been the Ancient Greece map. But I always felt it could be better.

So I adopted the map and made two new maps with it:

(1) Ancient Greece (101 territories, 28 bonuses): http://warlight.net/SinglePlayer.aspx?PreviewMap=2938 (pending public: this is more or less how I've always wanted this Ancient Greece map to be)

(2) Medium Ancient Greece (173 territories, about 45 bonuses): http://warlight.net/SinglePlayer.aspx?PreviewMap=2594 (testing, still have to change a few bonus names and create some distribution modes: I made this for fun)

myhand is Greek and I discussed my plans with him. He's been working on his own maps lately and has also decided to make a map of the Hellenistic world (Greek city-states, colonies). I expect that to be a larger (300+ territories), more detailed (creative bonuses, images, etc.), more historically accurate map (he knows more about Greece than I do).
Three New Maps of Ancient Greece: 4/5/2012 01:48:31


Richard Sharpe 
Level 59
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I saw you also adopted the France map. I hope you aren't planning on changing it too drastically as I like the current state of it or do as you did here and make two versions.
Three New Maps of Ancient Greece: 4/5/2012 01:49:58


Richard Sharpe 
Level 59
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Regarding the two maps, is there any reason that the same bonuses in the first, smaller map have different values than on the second, larger map?
Three New Maps of Ancient Greece: 4/5/2012 01:56:50


{rp} Clavicus Vile 
Level 55
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They look nice, I never really liked all those sea connections though. The yellow lines look cluttered and ugly.

Do you think there is a way to make them not be so obtrusive to the design?
Three New Maps of Ancient Greece: 4/5/2012 02:13:44

Qi 
Level 55
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France: I like it too. I will only make very minor changes to the current map (the strategy is best when wastelands are used, since there are no natural barriers, so I will try to address this somehow). I'm changing the orthography too (this is a minor change, but if you want a map of France, spell the territories correctly). I will then make a larger second map (different map family).

Bonus values: I have two thoughts on bonus values.

(1) Adjust based on strategic importance:

*number of territories = bonus values*
3=2: this bonus is important
3=1, 2=1, 4=2, 6=3, etc.: peripheral area
4=3, 5=4, 6=5, 7=5, 8=6: important area
5=3, 6=4, 7=4, etc.: somewhat important area, but not the most important

(2) Adjust based on how quickly/slowly or dynamic you want the map to be:

*number of territories = bonus values*
3=1 (larger greek map) vs 2=1 (smaller greek map)
5=4 (larger) vs 5=3 (smaller)

These were adjusted for two reasons: First, to make the two maps slightly different (so interest/boredom with one map has less of an influence on interest/boredom with the other). Second, due to map size and other bonuses: too much dynamism on the smaller one and the games' strategy could be too much about quick growth and not enough about tactics (like on the France map); the larger one has more space, so quicker growth should be less of an issue in terms of strategy...That's the hope at least. I'm still thinking this over for the larger map...
Three New Maps of Ancient Greece: 4/5/2012 02:20:11

Qi 
Level 55
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clavicus, if you can think of a way, let me know. i think it is only possible to not use lines if the connections have an internal logic (eg, fizzer's mirror earth connections or his hopscotch connections).

i did reduce the number of connections in certain areas of the aegean sea (and adjusted the connections in other areas to make it appear a bit less congested). but i also added a few connections (trade routes on the big map, around the peleponnese to add some strategy on the smaller one)...
Three New Maps of Ancient Greece: 4/5/2012 02:43:26


Richard Sharpe 
Level 59
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Glad to hear it about France, I was afraid from your comment on the map that drastic changes were in store.

As for the bonus diatribe, it makes good sense. Far better logic than that which I use though I did try to apply some of that to my latest revamp of Massachusetts.

Speaking of which, you must really hate my maps as 3 of the 4 have minimal tactical/strategic aspects as they are simply large landmasses.
Three New Maps of Ancient Greece: 4/5/2012 21:40:03

Qi 
Level 55
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France: I invited a handful of French players I know to see what they think. There seems to be a consensus:

- add the overseas administrative units (5 regions, maybe 10-15 territories in total)
- add 30 major (population is greater than 400,000 and/or major port) cities as territories, the 5 largest of which will each have a bonus of 1
- connect the overseas territories to the mainland via their respective historical ports; maybe connect them as well to 1-2 major French international airports
- the 25 additional cities without a bonus: this will help with determining bonus values for each bonus, which should make the map more strategic (better bonus allocation -> more strategy)
- all these changes seem related to the original map maker's intention

Ancient Greece: I updated [the map](http://WarLight.net/SinglePlayer.aspx?PreviewMap=12078) after having played it more:

- I noticed I missed a link (fixed)
- people's first impression is "so many sea links" (so: I reduced the number of links and reduced the brightness of the links 40-50%)
- I tested the map with top players; but playing with average players I noticed the picked in a bad way that I never considered (so: I restructured a couple bonuses to add greater balance and I made a default cities distribution mode to add balance and open the map up a bit)

Richard's maps: Your landmass maps are about as tactical/strategic as my China map is ugly. lol It's hard to balance of purpose (what is the map of? why should people be interested in it?), cartographic skill, beauty/proportion, and strategy/playability.
Three New Maps of Ancient Greece: 4/6/2012 01:38:49


Askingforit138
Level 26
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Somebody should map a Napolonic Era Map of Europe
Three New Maps of Ancient Greece: 4/6/2012 02:00:45


[REGL] Pooh 
Level 60
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Well Vapor, Just trying to keep the Riff Raff out :)
Three New Maps of Ancient Greece: 4/6/2012 02:01:19


[REGL] Pooh 
Level 60
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Oops, wrong thread.
Three New Maps of Ancient Greece: 4/9/2012 03:42:01


{rp} Clavicus Vile 
Level 55
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On the larger map, I think it'd look better and be more fun if the none-greek provinces which have just a square inside them were turned into proper territories. It'd be fun to play as the outsider nations, and not just have them as trade links or colonies.
Three New Maps of Ancient Greece: 4/9/2012 04:21:29

Qi 
Level 55
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ok. next time i get some motivation and have some time, i'll mess around with that.
Three New Maps of Ancient Greece: 4/9/2012 05:44:01


{rp} Clavicus Vile 
Level 55
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Great! Thanks.
Three New Maps of Ancient Greece: 4/9/2012 07:54:01


{rp} Clavicus Vile 
Level 55
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Also, now that i've seen it, i'd suggest doing the same for France too, but that'd be alot more work. Whilst i'm on the subject, it'd be nice if mapmakers considered doing this for any other country-wide maps that they make also. In my opinion they're mostly quite boring to play, but with a few territories outside the country being included it'd make for alot more interesting games.
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