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New map of Beleriand ?: 1/4/2019 20:21:26


Gallien
Level 54
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Currently we have got only one map of Beleriand - by Imperator. I like his maps, but this was one of the earliest - and let's be frank, it's unfinished. There are lots of territory names like "Plains 3", "Swamps 4" etc. The bonus borders are not divided. Plus the general layout is... well, I don't like it. Too many regions are almost completely disconnected from the rest of the map. Look at Eriador (east) - or the northern lands - or look at river Sirion without a single crossing between Tol Sirion (Minas Tirith) and the Gates of Sirion.
Plus there's lots of non-canonical territory! :-<

So I decided to make a plan for a different map. Here it is (alpha).

https://svgshare.com/i/ALf.svg

- The intransparent territories in the south won't be playable (see one exception below).

- West Beleriand is a real problem. Probably it should be simply turned into a wilderness (it was a wilderness, there was the Nuath forest, that is not shown on the map).

- A stretch of land exactly to the south of Doriath should be playable - I simply haven't decided on the borders of the active territory. That's why it is intransparent.

- I've got lots of empty space left, so I decided to add some minimaps for important cities - the space can be playable or it can be filled with pictures. On one hand it makes things complicated - on the other hand it is probably the only way to represent Gondolin properly...

- The circles are 30x30, the larger circles (the cities that have their own minimaps) are 50x50, the map itself is 2250x1500.

- I've added some canonical bridges across rivers + some semi-canonical mountain passes (people did cross the mountains after all). The tree circles in Taur-nu-Fuin (Dorthonion) aren't mountain passes - they're only goal is to remind me of the map features (Rivil's Well, mount Foen, Aeluin).

- While I added some bridges to Sirion, I also added other rivers - Aros (southern border of Doriath), Teiglin (southern border of Brethil), Esgalduin (divides Doriath), Mindeb (northwestern border of Doriath).

- The spider is alpha version :) Chances are high it won't survive long.

What do you think? Could this map be playable from the strategic point of view? Are there too many rivers and unpassable borders?
New map of Beleriand ?: 1/5/2019 20:22:26


Gallien
Level 54
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Something like this:
https://svgshare.com/i/AM6.svg

I wonder are there many tolkienists in warzone? :) I don't think I can do this map alone... I think I should make this SVG free for all mapmakers!

Edited 1/5/2019 20:24:05
New map of Beleriand ?: 1/5/2019 20:36:15


Murk
Level 56
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An ambitious project!
I'm not a huge Tolkien scholar myself, but I was under the assumption that his maps and descriptions of Beleriand (and even Middle-Earth, to a lesser extent) were rather… empty.
That is: filling it up will require lots of repetition ([…] North, […] South, etc.) or creative freedom (making up names yourself). Do you think there are enough place names to fill a map this huge and detailed with territories?
New map of Beleriand ?: 1/5/2019 21:34:36


Gallien
Level 54
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While it is true that Tolkien's maps were a bit empty, he compensated it with elaborate genealogical trees! :D Territories could be filled with names, artifacts, creatures, battles, those, who died in these battles - plus there are lots of wikis with lots of stuff that isn't shown on the map. Several Tolkienists would solve the problem of chosing names - if the territories of the map are related to the books, of course. This is exactly why I think that Beleriand map should concentrate on the most highly-populated and most described areas.
New map of Beleriand ?: 1/6/2019 07:59:35


Murk
Level 56
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Oh, fair enough!
Like I said, I'm sadly not too well versed, so I doubt I could offer you anything you yourself don't know, but it's good to hear you've got plans ;)
New map of Beleriand ?: 1/6/2019 22:11:29


Gallien
Level 54
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https://svgshare.com/i/APM.svg

Well, the coasts of Beleriand are more or less complete. The main problem is the file size. It is already 1.3 MB. I think I'll delete the "South Beleriand" and "East Beleriand" marks...

Right now I can name practically all of the territories that are already made. Ard-Galen (Anfauglif) and Lothlann will be the big pain, though.
New map of Beleriand ?: 1/7/2019 08:08:44


Murk
Level 56
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You still have a bitmap image in there, right? Those gobble up MB's. I assume once you delete that your file size will drop rapidly.
New map of Beleriand ?: 1/7/2019 20:10:26


Gallien
Level 54
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https://svgshare.com/i/AQg.svg

I've done the forest of Brethil, where the Haladin dwelt. There is a lot of info about it - I wish there was as much info on other regions as well...
The plains around Amon Rudh where Turin led his band of outlaws can be filled with the petty-dwarves and with the members of the outlaw band.

I've got plans for Dorthonion - there was the house of Beor plus the outlaws of Barahir lived there. Dor-Lomin, Estolad, Thargelion and Maglor's Gap will also be filled with names of men that dwelt there.

But I am a bit stuck with the the Realm of Nargothrond... Maybe I shouldn't make a mini-map for the city of Nargothrond after all... Then it will be easier to fill the main map.

I fear there will be the same problem with Doriath and Menegroth (its capital) as with Nargothrond. On the other hand I might still think of something unorthodox... For example, "Melian and her maidens filled the halls with woven hangings wherein could be read the deeds of the Valar, and many things that had befallen in Arda since its beginning, and shadows of things that were yet to be" ---> Maybe these topics could be turned into territories? Or some kind of shrines to different Valar could be introduced?

Gondolin is the city that definitely needs a mini-map. There is an early text of Tolkien, describing the city.
New map of Beleriand ?: 1/9/2019 21:19:10


Gallien
Level 54
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https://svgshare.com/i/ATC.svg

I've made some progress. Almost finished the main part of the map (but I had to abandon the rule "no territory without a name"). Only Doriath and Estolad remain - and the mini-maps.

I've already made the mini-map for Gondolin. Actually, there is enough information about the city for a map twice as large. Maybe I'll discard Nargothrond and Menegroth minimaps and remake the map of Gondolin...
New map of Beleriand ?: 1/9/2019 21:26:35


THE TungstenTrex
Level 48
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Really good, I love it already
New map of Beleriand ?: 1/10/2019 22:30:37


Gallien
Level 54
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Well, the first version of the map is ready. Here it is:
https://svgshare.com/i/ATc.svg

Now I've got to set the "Territory_№" tags before uploading it.
I'll make the offset between bonuses only in the very end, after I establish the bonus borders.

The crowns are labels for superbonuses (I might change them later).
New map of Beleriand ?: 1/11/2019 11:11:07


Gallien
Level 54
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Wow, the map editor has really become buggy since I last used it.

First, I can't even zoom in normally - the map disappears somewhere in the upper left corner of the screen when I click on the (+) button (which is also not easy, for most part of the button doesn't react to clicking) and the wheel simply doesn't work at all. This bug is definitely a new one.
Second, the squares disappear! The squares! The most complex of the geometrical figures! And yes, I've used the "Object to path" command and it didn't help.
Third, other rectangulars - both territories and non-territories - are randomly teleported across the map.

Plus it seems that Warzone automatically adds a 1-pixel stroke paint to all non-territory objects, which makes things really ugly when you zoom out. I've deleted all stroke paint in the SVG file.

This is sad :(

---------------

I replaced all square cities with hexagonal cities... and they got all teleported in one place! I've already done it on my previous maps and there have never been any problems with hexagonals! The map editor is really deteriorating!

https://www.warzone.com/SinglePlayer?PreviewMap=76861

P.S. I guess, there is only one way of solving these problems. The "turn object into path" function doesn't work - but creating a completely new path "by hand" does work. So I'll have to redraw all the rectangles and teleporting features....

Edited 1/11/2019 11:25:53
New map of Beleriand ?: 1/11/2019 11:46:10


Mudderducker 
Level 59
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I don't seem have encountered any of your problems on map editor. What mode do u use on warzone?

On map preview your map is confined to the top left corner, have you adjusted the size and units correctly? ik that's pretty obvious but cant really think of what else

Squares/circles/rectangles were fine for me, though I think they only behave when they have a territory ID. They have never teleported across the map :/

Nice map tho! :)
New map of Beleriand ?: 1/11/2019 12:20:04


Gallien
Level 54
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Actually, I didn't know about the modes at all... I've just found out that I've been using the UJC default mode and I switched to the legacy Flash mode. It became a little bit better... (Easier to move the map at least.)

Mudderducker - if you have never encountered teleporting rectangulars, you're lucky! I've already encountered them before, but I meet teleporting hexagons for the first time now :)

I also found out I had the scale set incorrectly. Fixed.

P.S. Never rotate circles. When you do, you activate their natural teleportation abilities.

Edited 1/11/2019 16:45:27
New map of Beleriand ?: 1/11/2019 22:42:27


Koen27
Level 50
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Cool idea. I have been thinking about making a Beleriand map for a long time but I can’t wait to test this map. Don’t rush while making the map. Just take your time.
New map of Beleriand ?: 1/12/2019 06:28:00


Murk
Level 56
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Rotating circles (or any object, for that matter) indeed messes them up big time in the map developer.

I've had the 1-pixel line across all non-territories happen. Best way to get around it is to set the opacity of all lines to 0 in your SVG file - at least, that helped for me.

Maps looks good to me though!
New map of Beleriand ?: 1/12/2019 09:17:57


Gallien
Level 54
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On the 1-pixel line around all non-territory objects... I am ashamed but I have to admit that this line appeared only in the map editor, but not in the preview :( So there is no bug here - only inconvenience of the editor.
New map of Beleriand ?: 1/12/2019 22:42:31


Koen27
Level 50
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Awesome map! Can’t wait to test it. I’m currently working on a new Middle Earth map. If you haven’t seen it yet check it out.

https://www.warzone.com/SinglePlayer?PreviewMap=76863

As you said I also thought the other Middle Earth maps are just... boring. I have already done Lindon and The Shire and parts of Mihiriath and Arthedain in one day and I’m having a lot of fun making the map.

The idea of filling up empty space with large cities is a smart idea but I’m not going to use that on my map.

I am relatively new to all this map development so I could use some tips and tricks to make the map look even better and have a better gameplay once it is finished.
New map of Beleriand ?: 1/13/2019 10:49:11


Gallien
Level 54
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Yesterday, I made several tests with the AI.
1) The first game I played as Eglarest. Once I killed Brithombar and united Falas it was easy. The second game I played as Hithlum - and suddenly Morgoth took over the map! (That was unusual.) In other games Nargothrond and Falas were often strong. The Dwarves are quite strong, but I've never seen them win. I tried to play as the Haladin of Brethil, but failed to unite the Vale of Sirion - and I've never seen the AI do it. I tried to play as Maedhros and it is only possible when you are the only player in the eastern part of the map. Otherwise you lose.
2) The western part of the map seems to be stronger than the eastern one. I think the big amount of towns in the west contributes to this... I'll change the number of armies from a town from 3 to 2, otherwise they are too important.
3) I think I have to remake the northern plains and maybe the eastern part of the map. As well as Nargothrond and Angband. Add more territories and change the overall look to something more aesthetic.

Koen27
The idea of filling up empty space with large cities is a smart idea but I’m not going to use that on my map.

Of course, if I found a detailed map of Beleriand like the ones you found for the 3rd age of Middle Earth, I wouldn't make big cities either. Sadly, I can't find anything.
New map of Beleriand ?: 2/1/2019 16:27:40


Gallien
Level 54
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The test game is finished now. I've set the map to "pending public" a few days ago.
New map of Beleriand ?: 2/1/2019 16:58:33


Koen27
Level 50
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Can't wait to play some good diplomacy games on this map. Thank you

Edited 2/1/2019 18:14:38
New map of Beleriand ?: 2/3/2019 19:48:53


Koen27
Level 50
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You should check out the map again because it is still not public. Maybe you missed something so the map could not be made public?

Edited 2/4/2019 16:22:20
New map of Beleriand ?: 2/9/2019 15:50:46


Gallien
Level 54
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The map's finally public! Hurray! :)
New map of Beleriand ?: 2/11/2019 12:23:18


Koen27
Level 50
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Amazing! Well done! And thank you Gallien for making the epic map!
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