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Feature suggestions: know total production, multi-transfer: 2/26/2012 10:37:14

bloodnok
Level 10
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Sorry if either of these are "hardy perennials".

I'd like to have an option, independent of fog settings, to know each player's total army output. (Some fog settings expose this already, but only by giving intelligence on every province held by every player). In FFA games one often has very limited intelligence on players' relative strengths, and often a player wins because their initial placement and expansion has allowed them to run away with the game while the other players are unaware this is happening. A game with this option would, I think, tend to flow back and forth as players band together against whoever has the upper hand.

I'd also like a "multi-transfer" option similar to the "multi-attack" option. There are a few ways I envisage this could work, but one way is that after every normal set of orders is executed, one or more (the number being configurable in game settings) "transfer only" rounds are carried out. The constraint on these might just be that one can only give transfer orders; that both territories involved might have to have belonged to you before the normal orders were executed; or also that you can't transfer out of a territory that was attacked. At present, Warlight allows you to play with the ridiculous Risk-ism that armies can travel faster through enemy territory than friendly - but not the reverse. This feature would address that.
Feature suggestions: know total production, multi-transfer: 2/26/2012 11:06:14

RvW 
Level 46
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Total production:
That's what the Spy Card is for, isn't it? Being able to constantly track every player's total production would allow you (by comparing consecutive turns) to make a very accurate prediction which bonuses they hold, effectively "removing fog" for very experienced players and players who are willing to put in a lot of time and effort to work through all the different possibilities.
I can't find the source at the moment, but I think Fizzer said somewhere he specifically does not want players to gain an advantage by spending lots of time and effort "solving puzzles" instead of playing the game itself.

Multi-transfer:
While I agree with you it's hardly realistic moving through a friendly territory takes the same time / effort as conquering a territory held by an enemy, I think that's just a sacrifice we'll have to make. Part of the challenge is managing your armies, not letting (too many of them) end up far away from the action.
A similar effect can however be created by adding airlift cards to the game. Divide them in very few pieces (or even just one piece) and you effectively have fast-moving armies.
Feature suggestions: know total production, multi-transfer: 2/26/2012 11:27:09


Perrin3088 
Level 44
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Multi-transfer:
I don't see why Multi-transfer could not be created as *an option* and it would likely work just like MA, but applying to transfers instead of attacks.. meaning if you captured territory A from territory B, then territory C transfered into Territory A, those armies would be eligible to transfer to territory D.. however, unless MA is also turned on, then the armies from territory B would likely already be flagged for having completed their attack, so would be unable to transfer to territory D, similar to how with the current MA settings, a territory transfering can not then attack.

Total Production:
this seems to highly negate the reasoning behind fog.. I can understand why you would want it, although no-fog would probably be much more reasonable to combat likely problems..

say player ABCD are playing.. A and B forcefully attack D, letting C grow into them, then turn and attack C, D starts holding his neck above water, then considers who is the biggest threat... At this point C has the highest overall income/armies, but A and B aren't fighting each other, and instead are concentrating on C... D, having checked the incomes sees that C is the 'biggest' threat and attacks him. C is rapidly killed, and D survives very shortly since he had already been rapidly diminished, thus turning the game into a 1v1 vs A and B, when A and B were the ones that really needed to be teamed up on by C -and- D.
Feature suggestions: know total production, multi-transfer: 2/26/2012 12:30:14

bloodnok
Level 10
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Total production:

Whether or not it resulted in "puzzle solving" would depend very strongly on the map in use. The widely used Earth maps, for example, have a lot of 3/4/5/6 bonuses; knowing that a player has gained 4 armies, or lost 2, would tell you very little about their situation. Like most options, it would be appropriate for some maps but not for others.

I don't see it as obviating fog, but rather as providing another option for the level of intelligence players possess. (Other options would be to display the total number of armies each player possesses, the total number of territories they hold, or the total number of bonuses. Arguably these are superior since none of them offers much possibility to play the guessing game). Presently one has two options, regardless of which of the fog options is selected; to have essentially no information on other player's strength, or to have complete information about the territories held by a player. I would like an intermediate option of some kind where one has some information about which players are strongest.

I don't see the ABCD example as really particularly expressing a disadvantage; in any game with partial intelligence, one may make bad choices. When D sees C's income drop below A and B, D should consider making common cause with C; when A and B see their incomes well above C and D, they should both consider stabbing the other... and that the other is intending to make a stab. It is true with an option of this kind, a very weak player will get steamrollered more often, rather than struggling on by bluffing the other players; on the other hand, multiple weak players can easily see that they need to ally.

Multi-transfer:

Obviously I only would like to see it as an option. Airlift cards don't care at all where armies started. I'd like to (optionally) diminish how important it is not to have armies out of position, without completely obviating that concern.
Feature suggestions: know total production, multi-transfer: 2/26/2012 12:32:33

RvW 
Level 46
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Perrin:
There are already a lot of options; if what bloodnok wants can be (almost) achieved with the current options, I'd prefer fixing it that way.
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