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External Site for Game/Tournament setup.: 2/20/2012 16:14:04


NecessaryEagle 
Level 56
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I'm planning on making a quick, free, website devoted to providing extension-content to Warlight. This would include things like tournaments that are not currently possible in Warlight, Setting up games/tournaments for non-members, etc. I'd like to get a feel for who and how many people would be willing to use this system. It would require little to no involvement of the user's part, other than simply signing up for events or using it to help themselves.
External Site for Game/Tournament setup.: 2/20/2012 17:20:09

RvW 
Level 46
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Have you talked to Fizzer about this? I can see some thing he probably wouldn't have issues with (and, anyway, would probably have no legal basis to prohibit you from doing it anyway, even if he doesn't like it), such as collecting tournament statistics or doing advanced matchmaking. However, the example you use (setting up games/tournaments for non-members) pretty much destroys the membership model (read: his only source of WL-related income). To put it mildly, he might not like that.
Since the only way I can see how you would do that is to let the website use some member's account (and the API) to set up those games, I suggest you either get his explicit approval or **carefully** reread the membership terms to make sure you're not breaking them.
External Site for Game/Tournament setup.: 2/20/2012 17:44:17


NecessaryEagle 
Level 56
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I haven't talked to Fizzer, but I believe that he will have no problems with the way I set things up.

1 - I do not intend to take players away from the site, only enhance the experience

2 - the main use of the site is to set up tournaments that can't be created on this site, such as tournaments where the map changes from one round to the next and non-elimination tournaments where everyone is ranked through successive brackets

3 - I said that it could be used to set up games/tournaments for non-members.
a - this already happens frequently
b - I meant posting a setup for a game or tournament, and if a member's interested, they could make the game and invite you
c - I constantly promote membership of this site, so if anything, this would be a way to show some non-members first-had what they could do with a membership

4 - I don't even know how to write API's

So again, I doubt that he would have a problem with it, even though he'd never endorse it either.
External Site for Game/Tournament setup.: 2/20/2012 21:27:21

RvW 
Level 46
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|> c - I constantly promote membership of this site, so if anything, this would be a way to show some non-members first-had what they could do with a membership

But with your site, they wouldn't *need* a membership. Also, your reasoning sounds a lot like the reasoning for file sharing sites to distribute music without paying for it (promotion, increasing record sales, etc). I'm not saying it's untrue, but I am saying it's not your decision to make, it's Fizzer's. Or, looking at it another way: if you're so sure he'll agree, why not ask him to make sure?

|> 4 - I don't even know how to write API's

I didn't mean you *writing* an API, I was talking about you *using* the (currently existing) APIs. I mean, if someone makes a tournament on your site, are you really going to create the games by hand? I sure hope you were planning something a little smarter than that. :p

---

ps. Just to be *perfectly* clear about this: I'm just another WL player, my opinion has exactly zero official weight. Also, what I'm saying about what Fizzer probably thinks is purely a guess (an educated one, but still a guess). I have no reason to assume I know him better than you do.
The reason I'm even posting this at all is my assumption he doesn't read every single post on this forum and you having a nice idea, which has the potential to go horribly wrong (it would be a shame if you spend lots of time on your idea and *then* get it shot down, don't you agree?).

If Fizzer says it's okay, I'll shut up at once and even apologies for needlessly panicking you, but if he doesn't, I hope to save you a whole lotta annoyance and frustration.
External Site for Game/Tournament setup.: 2/20/2012 21:45:15


NecessaryEagle 
Level 56
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Like yourself, I don't know much about Fizzer or the way he forms his opinion more than the next person, but it seems like he tends to read all or at least most of the forum posts as he also acts as the forum's moderator.

If he did have a problem with my site, I'm sure he'd let me know, and I'd comply with his wishes, as he is the sole owner of this site and all of its content. I didn't bother asking him because I didn't think it was worth his or my own time to do so, as I assumed he wouldn't care, at least not too much.

As to the tournaments, there are other ways of doing it, a sort of "mid-ground" if you will. I'm not familiar with any APIs for this site or how to use them anyway. one tournament, for example, I set up as a multi-tier round robin tournament, starting with 27 players. the 27 were randomly assigned to groups of 3, which then each play a round-robin tournament, which I personally set up. The nine winners will be randomly assigned to 3 more 3-man round robin tournaments, and then the winners of those will have another 3-man round robin tournament.

As to the non-members being helped thing; I respectfully disagree with your opinion of what this constitutes because of a few factors, including bot not limited to the following: I would not allow non-members to frequently post games/tournaments that they'd want to have set up, but a few from a single user is welcome. People already set up games and tournaments for non-members on a fairly frequent basis. The member who agreed to set up the games would still be the owner of them and in charge of them.
External Site for Game/Tournament setup.: 2/20/2012 22:04:36


NecessaryEagle 
Level 56
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upon further evaluation, the API setting isn't usable since only members can use the game-invite API and they can only invite other "members"
External Site for Game/Tournament setup.: 2/20/2012 22:18:46

RvW 
Level 46
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|> tournament, which I personally set up
(..)
I would not allow non-members to frequently post games/tournaments that they'd want to have set up

Ah okay, seems like I misunderstood your intentions (or at least, the scale at which you are planning this). I thought you were going to make a website where everyone can simply enter parameters (including member-only stuff), which then gets automatically generated (hence the need for the API).
If you're going to do it by hand, there might (at least conceptually) not be that much difference than setting up games for people who ask for it in the forum.

If it were me, I'd fire of a quick email, just to be sure (and maybe agree on some parameters, such as the number of games-with-members-only-features a non-member can make per time period, or maybe keeping some members-only-features off-limits). However, that's if it were me, which it isn't; your call!

---

Also, in retrospect, I should've thought of something; the mere existence of the Create Game API (and, upon looking it up, the statement "Using this can allow you to create a program that hosts your own tournaments or ladder-type systems." in its [WL Wiki article](http://wiki.warlight.net/index.php/Create_game_API) could be understood as tacit approval for what you're trying to do).
External Site for Game/Tournament setup.: 2/20/2012 22:29:12


NecessaryEagle 
Level 56
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I am almost 100% sure that Fizzer has zero problems with me using the site to set up tournaments and such. The only thing that he would possibly have a problem with is setting up games with member-only features for non-member players. Like I said, it's not implicitly making games for whomever wants them, it's non-members posting ideas for games, and if a member wants to make that game, they would do so and include them-self as well as the non-member in that game. In no way did I ever intend to make the site be a way for non-members to create whatever games they wanted at any time. It may however, get some of them interested and excited about the membership option. My site also avidly promotes people buying memberships, especially because I personally promote it as a means of supporting Fizzer for all of the time and work he puts into this free game.
External Site for Game/Tournament setup.: 2/20/2012 22:30:57


NecessaryEagle 
Level 56
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Oh yeah, and you're right about setting it up by hand. It's not much different than using these forums. There are a couple advantages though. For one I can moderate the thread and keep it clean, and for two it's easier to set up as I can also make blank pages on the site itself that have pictures or textual representations of active/old tournaments and events.
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