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Copyright infringement?: 2/7/2012 23:03:48

Lartokul
Level 2
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I have the feeling that a lot of the maps on here are taken from or maybe traced from copyrighted sources outside of fair use, permission, etc.. I'm a bit scrupulous when it comes to violating copyright, so I wanted to know if playing on maps that infringe copyright would be illegal.

Responses greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Copyright infringement?: 2/7/2012 23:07:16


Jeremiah2911 
Level 47
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do you have any examples?
Copyright infringement?: 2/7/2012 23:54:32


Perrin3088 
Level 44
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Fairly certain that if there are copyrighted materials, then the provider would be at fault, as opposed to the user.. esp. since all but single player games are stored on the warlight servers.. I speak with no legal experience ofc'
Copyright infringement?: 2/8/2012 00:18:11

Lartokul
Level 2
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Right now I've really been enjoying the U.S. map with all the counties. It seems unlikely that the map did not come from some copyrighted source. The creator no longer owns that map.

As to the fault going to the creator: would that mean that those who listen to pirated music are not breaking the law, rather, it's the one who posted that music?

Muchas gracias for the speedy replies!
Copyright infringement?: 2/8/2012 00:33:40


Perrin3088 
Level 44
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I meant warlight.net as the provider, more then whoever made it..
and napster was taken down hard cause it provided pirated music.. individuals are rarely ever punished for having pirated music to my knowledge
Copyright infringement?: 2/8/2012 00:39:49

Lartokul
Level 2
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I thought it was commonplace for people who illegally downloaded music, movies, etc. to be punished. Even if it is rare, it still would remain illegal though (if it even is).
Copyright infringement?: 2/8/2012 00:52:29


NoZone 
Level 6
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Very interesting question in this age of borrow and re-post. Likely not a problem for such a niche use, but that is not the point. Would the original creators even recognize their maps? They are intellectual property, however. Google certainly thinks so. Citations everyone!
Copyright infringement?: 2/8/2012 01:03:20

Lartokul
Level 2
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So what does this mean for me, practically, as a user? Would it be illegal to play on any maps that in some way infringe copyright?

Maybe I'll just make a set of totally infringement-clean maps.
Copyright infringement?: 2/8/2012 01:16:09


devilnis 
Level 10
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I don't think it would apply because even if the image from which a map was made was under copyright in the first place, the map itself has been hand crafted in lightscribe and the original was only used as a guide, not as an integral piece of the map's construction. Even if there were grounds for a lawsuit, it would be up to the copyright holder to send notification of infringement and a cease&desist, at which point Fizzer could just take the map down and call it good. The only maps here that might fall under copyright are ones taken from fictional books (like the middle earth map for instance) since you can't copyright a coastline :)
Copyright infringement?: 2/8/2012 01:34:46

The Duke of Ben 
Level 55
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The only maps that might have a problem would be ones based on copyrighted fiction, such as LoTR or similar. Real life maps cannot be copyrighted, since they are maps of real places. I have no idea if the owners of LoTR or Warhammer care about us using maps based on their ideas.
Copyright infringement?: 2/8/2012 01:54:30

Lartokul
Level 2
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I'm pretty sure that maps can be copyrighted. I think that would also include derivative works. Maybe that would fall under plagiarism.
Copyright infringement?: 2/8/2012 02:07:46


x 
Level 58
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are you kidding?
Copyright infringement?: 2/8/2012 02:08:55


x 
Level 58
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and were two seperate threads necessary to deal with this?
Copyright infringement?: 2/8/2012 03:32:15


DeмoZ 
Level 56
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Lartokul did you make an account simply to complain about copyright issues?

I don't mean to be offensive but I'd really like to know.

(I don't feel like posting this twice either).
Copyright infringement?: 2/8/2012 03:34:11


DeмoZ 
Level 56
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Geez I wish there was an edit feature...

You say that you really enjoy the Large USA Map, however you've only played 3 games and they've all been real-time. Are you to tell me that You've played 3 real time USA big maps? How in jesus' name can you sit at the computer for that long?

(Assuming You don't play much single player.)
Copyright infringement?: 2/8/2012 03:35:25


Lykus 
Level 4
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X pretty much sums up this entire thread.

This is a joke -.-
Copyright infringement?: 2/8/2012 05:04:40

phanatic62 
Level 37
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My girlfriend is a cartographer, and according to her public data like state, county and city lines can be recreated in mapping software. In other words, you can create a brand new map using existing data without stealing from anyone else. So it's not a given that the Large USA map was copied from an existing map. Also, county and state lines are public knowledge, and considering that the creator or the map had to redraw all of the lines by hand and didn't just copy/paste from an original source, I wouldn't be worried about copyright infringement. As others have said, the maps from works of fiction might be on more shaky legal ground. In the end, it's currently up to the owner of the website hosting the material to make a judgement call since they are the ones potentially profiting from the copyrighted material.

And as far as being worried about being prosecuted because you played the map: I have yet to hear about someone getting sued because they watched a youtube video that had unauthorized copyrighted material in it.
Copyright infringement?: 2/8/2012 05:50:58


TRUMP 
Level 59
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All this talk of copyrighted maps and possible trolls made me think of this prank call.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aue_Zzf-ZtA

I hope someone finds it at least amusing. I find it brilliant.
Copyright infringement?: 2/8/2012 08:59:40

Lartokul
Level 2
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No, I'm not a troll. I seriously have an issue with violating copyright - punished or not. I've just recently become re-interested in this game (I had another account - forgot the information for it, so I created this new one). Haven't played many games and some maight've been as guest. I'm mid-way in a Big U.S. game, and haven't played since this question hit me.

Very useful information, Phanatic. Is your girlfriend sure about that?
Copyright infringement?: 2/8/2012 13:12:49


[中国阳朔]TexasJohn 
Level 35
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The OP is either a very original (and not particularly annoying) troll, or the kind of person I would never ever EVER want to have a beer with. What a pointless and inane thread. Oh, sorry. TWO pointless and inane threads.
Copyright infringement?: 2/8/2012 14:48:47


x 
Level 58
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why do you have an issue with it? do you think the people who made these maps would care about them being used on this game? wouldnt they be more likely to be pleased with it?

you are a whole new kind of idiot. i cant imagine you actually existing in real life.
Copyright infringement?: 2/8/2012 15:06:01


Richard Sharpe 
Level 59
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Lartokul, if you are so bloody worried about copyright infringement I recommend you either:

A - Don't play the bloody game!
B - Create your own original map and only ever play on that map.
Copyright infringement?: 2/8/2012 15:35:18


NoZone 
Level 6
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In scientific publishing it is common to redrawn an image or figure from another paper for purposes of illustration or argument. Usually you redraw to exclude information that is not germaine to the topic at hand. Then you just include a simple statement of "Redrawn from John Doe (c)1995" and you are covered. Probably would suffice for purposes here. Slightly pedantic, yes, but good practice.
Copyright infringement?: 2/8/2012 21:10:52

Lartokul
Level 2
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You can ignore my threads (yes, multiple threads probably wasn't the way to go - I'll stop posting in the other one), if you'd like. Those who wish to participate in this discussion may continue if they'd like.

This thread is probably going nowhere, anyway. This may be a question for the experts, as some have noted. I believe the discussion of copyright is important, and I don't want to infringe on copyright in any way, even while realizing that this may seem to be a rather bizarre question.
Copyright infringement?: 2/8/2012 21:26:19


Richard Sharpe 
Level 59
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Since the source of many of these maps is likely forgotten and/or their creators are no longer active on Warlight, I would wager that the only way to play without fearing copyright concerns would be to create your own original map to play on. Or rely on the novelty maps which even then aren't guaranteed to be safe.
Copyright infringement?: 2/8/2012 21:46:31


x 
Level 58
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there must be some kind of cartography coypright forum out there on the internet for you somewhere, if thats what youre interested in. this is a strategy game.
Copyright infringement?: 2/8/2012 22:28:32

Lartokul
Level 2
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Yeah, I think I will just try to create my own maps. No painful chore for someone who already loves drawing maps for and creating fictional worlds. :D

I did post a question about this on a (pretty inactive) copyright forum. I thought I'd try this forum, and it turned out to be much more active. I'll persist with the copyright forum - I never did think of trying a cartography forum: certainly worth a shot!

Thanks for the replies
Copyright infringement?: 2/8/2012 23:05:00


DeмoZ 
Level 56
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You said in post 19 that you had a previous account. However in your other forum you said

|>I joined a couple days ago and am still confused about a lot of things (copyright included). I'm not even sure I knew I signed up for that game, much less remembered it. Sorry.
Copyright infringement?: 2/8/2012 23:10:20

Lartokul
Level 2
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Yes, I signed up my new account a couple days ago. I hadn't played in a while and can't remember my old account's information.
Copyright infringement?: 2/9/2012 00:31:19

not_spartacus 
Level 3
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A reaonably accurate answer from a reasonably knowledgeable person (cos it's sort of my job)

1) You aren't breaking any laws by playing on a map which comes from a copyrighted source.
2) Maps can be copyrighted, and there can be legal disputes about it which can become quite arcane. However the real money is in patents for location-based technologies, not in the maps themselves- it's **highly** unlikely that anyone on Warlight, or Warlight itself, would be sued. Ordnance Survey in the UK might send out a stern letter, say, but it wouldn't be worth their while to do more than that.
3) There are several good sources of public domain svg and other mapping, so it doesn't follow that anything/everything on Warlight is illegal.
-Wikipedia has several SVG maps under Creative Commons licences, worth a look. I did begin converting one of these for Warlight, so I know that's a viable route.
-Open Street Maps is a good source of open source mapping (non-svg) which you can do whatever you want with. It covers the whole world, and for Warlight purposes is accurate enough.
-In the UK Ordnance Survey have made many of their large scale datasets available as Open Data
-data.gov in the US might work in a similar way, but haven't looked. I think some states have released map data as open data, to stimulate the market.
4) It's a little too simple to say that copying a map makes it ok to use. It might be true if you copy by hand, but is not likely to be true if you are say using detailed snapping tools.

Hope that helps a bit.
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