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Europa Barbarorum Map Feedback: 1/28/2012 20:44:21


i-like-swords
Level 31
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My first map is finally published, thanks to those who tested it. But now that the map is public, is there anything that was missed or any general flaws? I know for a fact that most people are never too thrilled by the blocky-ness of it, even though that is how the original EB map was styled.
Europa Barbarorum Map Feedback: 1/28/2012 21:03:20


Moros 
Level 50
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What original map are you talking about? Are there other Barbarorum maps outside Warlight?

And I guess I'm too late with it, but why didn't you add the Mongolian empire? Or was it too late (1206-1294)?
Europa Barbarorum Map Feedback: 1/28/2012 21:13:09


i-like-swords
Level 31
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The original EB map is [here](www.europabarbarorum.com/features_map.html)

Most of the territories/empire bonuses were based off of either kingdoms/regions/ethnic tribes existing in the time from 300 BC to 200 BC, primarily at the time of 272 BC. The Mongolian empire would have been too late, even though the Xiongnu were already existing and thriving.
Europa Barbarorum Map Feedback: 1/28/2012 21:22:48


Issander
Level 55
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Apulia and Campania are not connected :)

May I ask why did you decide on making all borders from straight lines and right angles?
Europa Barbarorum Map Feedback: 1/28/2012 21:42:25


i-like-swords
Level 31
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Fixed. Waiting for new version to go public. Again.

[The original map](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d5/EB_1.1_antique_map.jpg) was blocky, and I didn't want to make it seem too different, as this map is titled Europa Barbarorum. While I have tweaked the map a lot, I don't see why it has to be changed.

If there is anyone who would like make a non-blocky version of the map and/or possibly extend it, I will send him/her the svg, as I am officially finished with this map unless someone finds more missing connections/flaws.
Europa Barbarorum Map Feedback: 1/29/2012 10:23:34


Urfang
Level 55
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Very good map but I think the Roman Empire never reached the Persian Gulf and Mesopotamia just the Pontus-Cappadocia-Cilicia-Syria-Judea-Sinai line.
Europa Barbarorum Map Feedback: 1/29/2012 14:51:03


Ironheart
Level 53
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the big bonuses in which in split in 2 the the merged one should be 3 bonus like italia it is 7,11,and 9 that will mean for 16 Territories get 32 income not right
Europa Barbarorum Map Feedback: 1/29/2012 15:46:43


myhandisonfire 
Level 54
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I will not mention how she looks like, cause she is no beauty, but i liked the map and played on it. From that one game i had i can say its fun to play on, cause the territories are intresting, but it needs a lot of tuning of bonus values.
There are threads somewhere giving hints about how to give region appropriate bonus values, best suited for a fair game.

The huge empire bonuses are nice but here again, you have to rethink the values.
Think about that some are redundant, so if you dont want an unbeatable alexanders empire bonus, you have to think that with getting the alexander empire bonus, one already has the seleucid, the parthian and persian as well as the ptolemain bonus.
Europa Barbarorum Map Feedback: 1/29/2012 21:11:00


i-like-swords
Level 31
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Working on nerfing the bonuses in the current version. I'm getting rid of the Macedonian bonus now that you pointed that bonus problem out. I'm thinking of deleting the Parthian Empire bonus, and if I'm crazy enough to want to, I'll create a **larger** map with all of China and Southeast Asia, Japan, Africa up to Zanzibar and the Congo, and with *straight borders,* if people really want to see one.
Europa Barbarorum Map Feedback: 2/4/2012 19:38:19


Ironheart
Level 53
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i think u should make the bonus much fairer
Europa Barbarorum Map Feedback: 2/4/2012 19:38:39


Ironheart
Level 53
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balance between armies and teritories
Europa Barbarorum Map Feedback: 2/4/2012 22:18:40

bloodnok
Level 10
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It's an interesting map, but as mentioned elsewhere I think it's a serious mistake to make second-tier bonuses very large. It's appropriate to have the empire bonuses on this map - they're thematically sensible - but the bonus for, say, Persia should not be as large as it would be if Persia had no sub-bonuses. It should be relatively modest because it comes in addition to securing the sub-bonuses.
Europa Barbarorum Map Feedback: 2/7/2012 13:07:07


i-like-swords
Level 31
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I fixed all of the bonuses by evening out the numbers. I got rid of the Parthian and Macedonian Empire bonuses because I felt they were too redundant, so I need to think of a way to replace them with other empires. The blocky map will still be called Europa Barbarorum, but I'm going to create another map that straightens out the borders and expands south and east titled EB Large or Remastered.
Europa Barbarorum Map Feedback: 2/7/2012 13:30:50

duffer
Level 2
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The improvements seem spot on. I've enjoyed this map despite the blocky look and over-large bonuses already. I look forward to the new larger one too. Keep up the good work.

If you'd make some empire bonuses for Northern Europe (say, Celtic Tribes) and a smaller empire based on Greece (say, Greek City States), that would make the left side of the current EB map more prominent. There wouldn't be a clear historical precedent as a single empire for these, but I hope they'd make for good map design and that would justify putting them in.
Europa Barbarorum Map Feedback: 2/7/2012 16:19:26


Moros 
Level 50
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Add the Mongolian empire!
Europa Barbarorum Map Feedback: 2/7/2012 17:05:12


Ironheart
Level 53
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a few bonus box are missing like parthian empire bonus, Macedonian empire and asia bonus box
Europa Barbarorum Map Feedback: 2/7/2012 17:34:03


Moros 
Level 50
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Oh sorry, I didn't see you responded on my Mongolian empire question :(
Europa Barbarorum Map Feedback: 2/7/2012 20:34:27

duffer
Level 2
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I played a quick game versus AIs and started on the western side of the map. There seem to be quite a lot of bonuses there already, so I'm not sure adding more would be a good idea after all. Does anybody have other observations about the map's balance, perhaps after playing with real humans?

Also, the AI can still get stuck at zero production with Sahara being -5. lol
Europa Barbarorum Map Feedback: 2/7/2012 22:22:01

zing104
Level 55
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I've played several games on this map, and the eastern side has a lot of small empire bonuses. It has some great starting spots (4 troops for 3 territories) with other great ones nearby. You grab those in the beginning and you already have an advantage, then you quickly grab the nearby "small" empire bonuses (In comparison to the roman) and your set. There's no way the player trying to take the roman bonus would ever succeded, as they wouldn't have enough troops to wrench the roman empire from the eastern player. It seems that you would have to include a few other empires on the western side.

Just my 2 cents.
Europa Barbarorum Map Feedback: 2/8/2012 11:43:02

duffer
Level 2
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Well, obviously the AIs aren't good opponents to judge a map by. I had things too easy at the start and when one of them fought back a little more seriously it was over minor bonuses in Arabia while I was completing the Roman Empire bonus at the same time. I think zing103's experiences tell us more about serious games on this map.

It might be a good idea to draw some lines on the map and calculate how much bonuses you can get from one side versus the other, and see if any lines splitting the map about 50 to 50 area-wise give a really unbalanced amount of bonuses to one side.

That three-territory bonus in the east has been taken down to giving just three now, though. But it looks like there is nothing in the west to compare with the Greco-Bactrian and Mauryan Empires, so adding something to balance them might make the map better balanced after all.
Europa Barbarorum Map Feedback: 2/28/2012 11:56:34

duffer
Level 2
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I just recently noticed a little thing. The bonus square for Asia Minor seems to be missing.

Without having played serious games against people (As opposed to AIs) on this map, I have the impression that the combined bonuses and empire bonuses are still too big. They should be in the range from one to three for two-part territories and at most up to 10 for the empires, in my opinion. The Greco-Bactrian empire for one should be seriously toned down, because it is very quick to get if you start alone in that part of the map, and then you can stomp on all your neighbors far too easily.

I'm also still hoping some sort of Celtic and Greek minor bonuses would appear on the left side of the map to counteract the right side. Nothing too large of course.

I don't feel there can be too many situations where you have the Roman bonus and are not already winning quite comfortably even without it. Wouldn't it work better if it were smaller and gave less of a bonus?

If you are still making the larger version of Eurasia and Africa in this kind of style, please concentrate on it instead of putting a lot of effort into improving his map. I have a feeling I'm going to prefer it to this map, and I still enjoy a quick game on this map now and then as it is. I guess it is the area covered and typical size of the territories that gives it a pleasant feel for me. I just don't like wildly varying territory sizes so much.
Europa Barbarorum Map Feedback: 3/2/2012 01:40:24


i-like-swords
Level 31
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Sorry for not fixing up my map yet. I'm really busy with school and all, and don't have the time to work for large side projects like this. Besides having to draw the actual map, I want the names to be as historically accurate as possible and that requires a lot of research. I have to remove territories from my Europa Barbarorum map to create newer version because they'll be too small to play on, and I need to create new bonuses and rename certain places... to be perfectly honest, I might as well rename my new map to Ancient World.
Europa Barbarorum Map Feedback: 3/2/2012 13:37:43

duffer
Level 2
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Don't worry about taking your time. Making it right is important and I'm sure we all have more important things than map-making to worry about, and sometimes they take up all our time. I just wanted to say I would still be very much interested in such a map.
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