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How to Manipulate the Ladder System: 2/3/2014 16:16:24

Qi 
Level 55
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(1) Refuse to surrender when you have clearly lost but an opponent was accidentally booted: HHH/Zibik vs piggy/Qi, Motocross/Longhouse vs Beebz/Gnuff, et al.

(2) Postpone a surrender in a game you have clearly lost: Dunga, Gnuff/Beebz, JSA, BRAIN/Fridge, Doushibag, Oliebol, et al.

(3) Quit the ladder when your rating is high (to stop taking on new games and risk losing), rejoin after the guy(s) previously ranked ahead of you lose and you have a chance to reach #1. (I know of three people who have done this, but it is a touchy subject.)

(4) Beat as few bad players as possible so you can play as many in the top 50 as possible. Win and your rating is higher than if you had beaten the bad players.

(5) Play as few games as possible. The more you play and win, the more the system thinks you are the greatest player ever -- and rates you accordingly. The more games you play, the more likely you will lose. Nobody can reach 2300 on the 1v1 ladder after 50 games played. It is impossible. But winning 15 in a row is possible. Likewise, nobody on the 2v2 ladder can play 30 games and have a rating of 2200. But after 10 games, 2200 is possible, if you beat the right people (too many bad teams, and 2200 is not possible with a 10-0 record).

(6) Play slowly. (a) On the 1v1 ladder, people get unnerved when you play too slowly (study Math Wolf). The more they think about your play speed, the less they focus on beating you. (b) Games are about rhythm and being in the zone. When somebody is beating you, stop playing. Maybe it will make them play worse. Maybe the extra time will help you think better. (c) The best teams on the 2v2 ladder talk a lot. This takes time, especially if you are in different time zones.

(7) At any time that you win a bunch of games in a row, go on a long vacation! Wait for your losses to expire. And then rejoin the ladder once your string of wins are the only games on your unexpired game count. (Similar to #3 above, but incorporates using vacations. Can also be used in conjunction with #6 and #2, in case you have to wait longer for losses to expire.)

Keep on manipulating the ladder! Only by exploiting the flaws and weaknesses in the ladder will a better system be used.

Edited 2/3/2014 16:18:34
How to Manipulate the Ladder System: 2/3/2014 16:27:38


ps 
Level 60
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on a related note: winning your games also helps.
How to Manipulate the Ladder System: 2/3/2014 17:12:41


Kenraali 
Level 58
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Good post. I also would like to know what is rating record in 1v1 ladder so that at least 100 games is included.
How to Manipulate the Ladder System: 2/3/2014 18:53:36


Kenny • apex 
Level 59
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Erm. I'm not 100% positive but I think Zibik had 100 games and was rank 1, Heyheuhei is a similar case, but I don't really think there's an easy way to tell what rating they had when they hit 100+ games...
How to Manipulate the Ladder System: 2/3/2014 21:18:58

Qi 
Level 55
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2v2 and 1v1. Both can be manipulated. Spread the gospel.
How to Manipulate the Ladder System: 2/3/2014 21:20:39


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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There is no doubt to the accuracy of this, but the question is should people do this?

It is obviously not against the rules, but does it diminish accomplishments by people in doing these tactics?
How to Manipulate the Ladder System: 2/3/2014 22:33:48


Taishō 
Level 57
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If you're asking whether it diminishes the accomplishments of players who don't use these tactics, than yes, it has a negative impact. If however, you were asking whether it diminishes the accomplishments of those who do use these tactics, no. I think most who become #1 on the 1v1, 2v2 and (to a more limited extend) the seasonal, use a combination of these methods.

Edited 2/3/2014 22:35:31
How to Manipulate the Ladder System: 2/4/2014 05:17:31

JSA 
Level 59
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What the hell? I am strongly against stalling. I don't know where you got that from but obviously your sources are quite wrong. Out of all those, I did #3, when teddy suffered a loss. I had quit planning to come back in a few months but with his loss, I knew if I won a couple more games without facing defeat I would take #1 which I did. I don't think this is manipulating the system, just getting lucky with the timing, which I did.

Speaking of stalling, why did qi stall the 2v2 ladder game against gnuffone's team? Gnuffone didn't start stalling until a couple weeks after qi did. So Gui falsely accuses others, yet stalls himself. Dunga also is still #1 even after being done stalling, so his stalling is irrelevant.
How to Manipulate the Ladder System: 2/4/2014 06:19:27


professor dead piggy 
Level 59
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JSA the problem is not the individual cases. There is a culture of trying to differentiate yourself not by playing the game exceptionally well, but by gaming the players exceptionally well. This has extended to playing the ladder like a balalaika.

This encorporates everything from alts, to looking at past games, game delaying, slow playing. All "out of game" influences give obsessive gamers an edge and reward hard work (grinding) over creativity and strategic competence. We are here because we are the latter, shall we keep it that way? I am more interested in thought provoking games than boosting a meaningless number slightly slightly higher.

Edited 2/4/2014 06:28:59
How to Manipulate the Ladder System: 2/4/2014 08:30:03

Jehovah 
Level 58
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its about the achievement, piggy. People want the sense of achievement, the pride, of getting top 10 on the ladder or sth

Edited 2/4/2014 08:30:18
How to Manipulate the Ladder System: 2/4/2014 10:36:21

Qi 
Level 55
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JSA, you had a loss. You stalled a turn while #2 or #3 because you were close to #1. Finish that game in real-time and you never reach #1. The moment you decided stalling was no fun because you had already let people see your name in the #1 slot, you surrendered and quit the ladder at about the same time (if not the same time). I watched that game and looked at the timing of your turns. Textbook stall. Congratulations! You got first* place by following these methods!

Edited 2/4/2014 11:56:46
How to Manipulate the Ladder System: 2/4/2014 10:59:59


Krzysztof 
Level 66
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(6) Play slowly. (a) On the 1v1 ladder, people get unnerved when you play too slowly (study Math Wolf). The more they think about your play speed, the less they focus on beating you. (b) Games are about rhythm and being in the zone. When somebody is beating you, stop playing. Maybe it will make them play worse. Maybe the extra time will help you think better. (c) The best teams on the 2v2 ladder talk a lot. This takes time, especially if you are in different time zones.


This point is not about "manipulating the ladder system", just winning games. No matter how the ladder would work, you can always do that.

Edited 2/4/2014 11:00:09
How to Manipulate the Ladder System: 2/4/2014 11:28:06

Qi 
Level 55
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Against Gnuff, I took my time for two turns when we still had a chance. During that time, the game was not over for sure but Gnuff started insisting in a brash manner that I surrender. I wanted to see him stall his other games and have other people get as angry at him for stalling as he made me for demanding a surrender too early. So I stalled to teach him a lesson. Plus, we had that game won if piggy made an extra delay or two, something that was suggested and easily doable but not done. Why would I want to wittingly be the reason Gnuff starts gloating and writing on the forums and his profile about how he broke records? And in a game he had no business winning?

Edited 2/4/2014 11:56:59
How to Manipulate the Ladder System: 2/4/2014 15:06:13


♈§IRIÜS♈ 
Level 57
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I was touched by the statement number 5

(5) Play as few games as possible. The more you play and win, the more the system thinks you are the greatest player ever -- and rates you accordingly. The more games you play, the more likely you will lose. Nobody can reach 2300 on the 1v1 ladder after 50 games played. It is impossible. But winning 15 in a row is possible. Likewise, nobody on the 2v2 ladder can play 30 games and have a rating of 2200. But after 10 games, 2200 is possible, if you beat the right people (too many bad teams, and 2200 is not possible with a 10-0 record).


I should take a break from the ladder~~ :)
How to Manipulate the Ladder System: 2/4/2014 16:40:21

Widzisz • apex 
Level 60
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(0) Read carefully everything Qi and dead piggy post on the forum about gaming the system.

But seriously, you just make it worse / easier. I mean, now I know how to manipulate the ladder, why not to follow your advice?

Keep on manipulating the ladder! Only by exploiting the flaws and weaknesses in the ladder will a better system be used.

System haven't changed since the beginning, "Warlight is a Dictatorship" after all.

Edited 2/4/2014 17:13:16
How to Manipulate the Ladder System: 2/4/2014 20:25:35

fatality 
Level 61
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"How to Manipulate the Ladder System
(1) Refuse to surrender when you have clearly lost but an opponent was accidentally booted: HHH/Zibik vs piggy/Qi"

I don`t know how comment it :) Check this game again. When dead piggy was booted your team has 77 armies, we 71 armies, you lead in income 25 : 18, but in next turn you can`t defend Antarctica and HHH take E US, then you will be lose in income 22 : 23. Why you expect our surrender when game is balanced? You should surrender automatically when piggy was booted, but you still play and waiting for what?. Before we meet your team we lose by boot too, and I surrender at once without regret.


You should be ashamed to indicate team Zibik/hhh in this topic. We never calculated in 2v2 ladder.
How to Manipulate the Ladder System: 2/4/2014 20:42:23

Incognito
Level 50
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We knew your locations. The plan we discussed would have worked. Recreate the game. Custom distribution. You lose for sure. 100%.

No calculations? Team Zibik is not near first. They disappear from ladder. Team Zibik is near first, reappear on ladder. Rule #3 and Rule #5. Congratulations, you are a master manipulator of the ladder!

Edited 2/4/2014 20:46:03
How to Manipulate the Ladder System: 2/4/2014 21:07:18

fatality 
Level 61
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Stg Pepper you are pitiful. We cant participate in ladder without another boot HHH, he completly have no time and get boot in 1v1 ladder too. Do you see any sense to play 2v2 when one player will be boted? Its normal to leave ladder when you have no time to play. When I can I play 1v1, 2v2, season and other games, but when I have no time I resign with all or one of them.
How to Manipulate the Ladder System: 2/4/2014 21:18:21

Incognito
Level 50
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Let me tell you somethin' brotha, when you step in the ring with Sgt Pepper, you better say your prayers and eat your vitamins! Whatcha gonna do when Sgt Pepper runs wild on you?
How to Manipulate the Ladder System: 2/5/2014 00:18:34


Belzebù - サタン 
Level 62
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Qi always like to play the part of the victim, he is the innocent virgin surrounded by ill-intentioned people ,you might seem like a perfect roleplayer, but you arent, you have deliberately manipulated the ladder system...

rule #1 Refuse to surrender when you have clearly lost against me and gnuff, rule #6 you played slowly to delay your loss against us and consequently we had to delay too against mirror/ineff and dreuj/brisk (games that have become over weeks after your defeat), so you are the only one that have postpone his losses <--rule #2

rule #7 you have used 3 vacations of 10 days to delay, and your hypocrite partner have also try to convince me that you were in vacation and that you did not have time to play....when you was realy active with your second account!, rule #3 after have put yourself in vacation you consequently quit the ladder.


and now you hide yourself behind pathetic excuses based on gnuff attitude of self promotion/bragging or the fact that you would have won if piggy had listened you.

-this is 2vs2 ladder not 1vs2 ladder, so, if you want puppet others you have to team up with noobs like motocross that allow you to do this and you would have won. but here you have clearly LOST.

but the silly true is that you only wanted to sabotage our team, you were jelaus of the fact that we were able to do what you have not been able to do. But lets compare our teams performance :

-we played with 2 games at time , and we fight against all the top ten and the other teams with very high rating

-you played with 5 games at time , you getting high rating beating a lot of noobs, the only top team that you beat is dreuj/brisk and you also got a lucky win by boot against dunga/grona, and after have take #1 you changed your ladder settings from 5 games at times to 2 games at times..isnt that ladder system manipolation?


all the players have used at least one of the rules that you mentioned and who says no is an hypocrite like JSA or piggy that after two months of vacation he insisted on says that he did not delay...

you seems to me also exhagerated with your rules, most of the players in top 20 do not have more than 20 games or they play slowly to stay with 15-25 and not more games completed , how can is possible have more than 100 games with expiration after 3 months and hold first with high rating? ...you must be also hyper active....

There are other rules, worse than these, that you have forgotten to mention:

-Players that put themselves on vacation for 1-2 days, leaving their friends take the first position

-Players that for lack of interest or just to increase the rating of the friends they let themselves being booted in matches against them: dead piggy/gnuff, military maniac/mentish grona-dunga/Qi-piggy uranus/mannhereim etc etc

then I think that someone should remove the halo from his head.....
How to Manipulate the Ladder System: 2/5/2014 09:22:48


Ace Windu 
Level 56
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srs biznis
How to Manipulate the Ladder System: 2/5/2014 09:54:17

Incognito
Level 50
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Touchy subject. I'm asking people to follow these rules. So, congratulations Belz!
How to Manipulate the Ladder System: 2/5/2014 10:34:43


The Great Pulsius 
Level 57
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Beelzebooter why are you acting like a victim, like some anonymous virgin? o.O
How to Manipulate the Ladder System: 2/5/2014 11:30:44


[WM] ᵀᴴᴱ𝓕𝓻𝓲𝓭𝓰𝓮 
Level 59
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Anonymous is not a virgin, don't you remember neither the pale-faced woman, nor the vampiric gal? ;)
How to Manipulate the Ladder System: 2/5/2014 13:53:14


The Great Pulsius 
Level 57
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What?? I wasn't referring to the [WM] Anonymous who is definitely neither a virgin nor a gay nor a shrimp. Stop being so over-sensitive ;)
How to Manipulate the Ladder System: 2/5/2014 14:08:09


[WM] ᵀᴴᴱ𝓕𝓻𝓲𝓭𝓰𝓮 
Level 59
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hahah :D i thought he actually was a shrimp though ;)
How to Manipulate the Ladder System: 2/5/2014 15:08:20


The Great Pulsius 
Level 57
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well he is, but dont tell anyone. he'd hate it if people found out.
How to Manipulate the Ladder System: 2/5/2014 19:24:46


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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If you really want to show how it can be manipulated, you should see how many non elite players you can take top spot on ladder with using these tactics.
How to Manipulate the Ladder System: 2/6/2014 07:46:14


professor dead piggy 
Level 59
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JSA, Niko,

beel, gnuff, olie (were all pretty rubbish when they fisrt got it, and promptly dropped out of the top ten, not to be seen again for months)
How to Manipulate the Ladder System: 2/6/2014 08:11:09


Krzysztof 
Level 66
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The best proof ladder is manipulated is i can't reach TOP10, because all of the noobs sitting there thanks to their manipulations. Otherwise i would be TOP5 at least and TOP1 very likely.

Same with arun

Edited 2/6/2014 08:11:42
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