Since you believe that alts are unfair here is my proposition: The real-time ladder should run with elo decay then people would be forced to play if they want to keep the account rating. Also, I think the higher rank you are the faster you should decay. For example, if you are running at 2000+ you decay faster than a guy at 1900+ and 1900+ faster than others below it. With this system, people might actually play more with their main and not alt account.

Note: I do not think alts should be banned from the RT Ladder but I just suggested elo decay since it might get people to play on their main. I actually do not care that much about the real-time ladder tbh. If you play it that's fine and if you do not that is fine as well.

Just my two cents. :D

The purpose of a rating system is to assign ratings based on known skill. The RT ladder system attempts to match players similar in skill.

If you establish a rating of 1800 with one account, the system will try to pair you with others rated near 1800. If you create an alt, your skill doesn't change. However, the system will assume the alt is a new player and give you an inaccurate rating of 1000.

With your new alt and inaccurate rating, the system will now pair you with lower skilled players. You have deceived the system and deceived the other players.

Generally the other players do not appreciate this.

Using an alt would be fine if the person's previously established rating could be transfered.

"However, the system will assume the alt is a new player and give you an inaccurate rating of 1000."

This is nonsense and shows how little you know about the RT ladders scoring. After as few as 2-3 wins someone will have a trueskill mean that is super high until they start losing matches, and trueskill mean is what it used for matchmaking as well as determining the affects of opponents rating swings.

Edited 9/18/2017 11:39:52

New players are considered unranked so start from the bottom in the matching process.

Nauz is right though, from experience I know it's much to win/lose to a new player with a high trueskill than a solid 1700.

Yes, there is a big deflation of the rating in the RT ladder. The effect is particularly obvious for good players that were ranked 10 or 20 months ago and did not play many games in recent months. All these players lose rating points in the following games. So returning after inactivity is a good way to grab a top spot and the rating and ranking reflect not only skill but also some time component.

Alt-runs might contribute to that.

Another factor that contributes is that good players lose rating points when they get booted. An estimated 25% of the games I lost were due to boots because I forgot that I joined or because I played while receiving a phone call or something else to prioritize. Some of these lost games were against low rated players. That lowers my rating by a lot. Which lowers the rating of players I did beat after that more than normaly.

Sometimes I also play a game from my phone or at work for mere distraction and don't play well at all. The same applies as above.

Whereas the alt-runs could be considered unfair and unwanted, the other two factors are in the nature of the RT ladder. Also because games don't expire (although I admittedly don't know the exact effect of that). Losing games against lower skilled players for such reasons might apply to other ratings as well, but might be particularly obvious for real-time games. I don't find it very problematic since I just play the RT ladder for the quick real-time strategic game and not to get a certain rating or ranking.

If one would want to improve something, maybe the number of games (or low rating deviation) could weigh stronger to determine a rating? Although I don't find it important myself.

Just my two cents. On a different note: in general I think we need more people on the ladder to have it working better (faster match-ups, more different opponents, more opponents with comparable skill). How to improve that? Time for template changes? Maybe we can remove 2 of the least popular templates and replace them by 2 of the more popular templates (preferentially votes count stronger for frequent RT ladder players). Other suggestions?

Saw this in a discord chat, might be a laugh posting it here ;)

Player12345 wants to ban alts because they're unfair.

Meanwhile, he loses games, and begs his opponents to surrender in won positions so his rating doesn't go down.

Stay hypocritical player, stay hypocritical.

PS: If people wanted their games analyzed they could get much better players than you to do it, that wouldn't ask them to throw games in exchange.

EDIT: I didn't realize Buns had posted the image while I was writing my post, but yes, that is what I was referring to.

Edited 9/18/2017 18:34:18

Roflmao

Wow!
Is this real?

i always offer the same deal but on one takes it :*(

I'm not sure why Buns157 has weighed in here. Iron Man surrendered the game he is referencing. It seems my advice is often valued highly.

And you think it's good spormanship? I remember someone stalling on the rt ladder as well. This sucks much more for the opponent than an imperfect rating system.

shows how little you know about the RT ladders scoring.

Nauzhror, you show no RT ladder games on your profile. How do you know so much? Why do you have such a strong opinion?

Do you have any alts on the RT ladder? If you do you should post them all here since you think it's not wrong to use them.

Wheter nauz plays the rt ladder or nit is irrelevant here. His point is still right. What you said before is untrue. You clearly don't undestand the rating system of the rt ladder.

Edit: that beeig said, alts (from upper average players) deflate the ladder rating on trueskill and are therefore bad for the ladder.

Edited 9/18/2017 20:55:44

"Do you have any alts on the RT ladder? If you do you should post them all here since you think it's not wrong to use them."

This is terrible logic.

What account(s) I play on is my business. I don't need to reveal the identity of accounts I play in order to defend their usage, or that I understand the rating system better than you.

I've had alts with 2200 trueskill mean that had lengthy winstreaks, I know for a fact that the people I beat barely had their rating drop at all, and that when the streaks ended, the people that beat me got a massive rating jump. They didn't have their rating impacted the same as losing to most people with a ~1650 rating, their ratings were impacted by 2200 trueskill mean which is typically closer to someone rated 2000+.

The RTL overrates people until they have a loss, I am not claiming I can hit 2000+ on the RTL, or that I can maintain a 2200 trueskill mean while having losses, but I don't need to be that good to witness the impact my games have on other players while having such a mean even if it is temporary.

Because it overrates players with no losses, such alt runs tend to cause inflation, not deflation, because the alt is overrated, and therefore causes their opponents ratings to benefit as well.

"I'm not sure why Buns157 has weighed in here. Iron Man surrendered the game he is referencing. It seems my advice is often valued highly."

Ya the problem is that you can't handle a loss so instead of surrendering you talked him into surrendering a game he had won. Seems like emotional manipulation to me.

Also for you to talk in the past to other players about ladder etiquette and setting examples and doing this looks a bit hypocritical.

This thread was intended for respectful discussion of alt usage, and it seems to be getting a bit off topic. Interesting.

I remember someone stalling on the rt ladder

MoD, I have a lot of respect for your skill, but this is off topic and we've discussed it before. Since you brought it up here I'll explain again. I carefully consider my moves and nearly all of my RT ladder games are far slower than average. It's not uncommon for me to exceed bank time and lose as a result. This is not "stalling" in the sense you're suggesting.

If you have a problem with the time settings Fizzer uses for the RT ladder, that's a fair point. Maybe we could have a separate ultra fast RT ladder.

Wow!

Is this manipulating the ranks and ratings?

I'm not sure why Buns157 has weighed in here. Iron Man surrendered the game he is referencing. It seems my advice is often valued highly.

I loved this. I want your advice on making great comments, such as this.

Edited 9/18/2017 21:06:56

Player, will you pay me $ to get several alts to 2000+ trueskill and then surrender to you?

I know you offer people advice for this sort of behavior usually, but I don't really value your advice as much as your money.