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History of Poland Map Development: 8/31/2017 17:37:35


Abraxis 
Level 55
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I've been thinking about making this for the past week or so. I have a lot of reference images and animated videos to make this feasible. However, I'm wondering about how this would be used (diplomacies and ffas) if this will be published. This will also be the first map I'll ever make. One last thing, I'll be busy for the next 7 months or so in a week (school).

Any tips or ideas to make this easier to make?

This will be of similar format to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfjKPPQL37I
History of Poland Map Development: 8/31/2017 17:42:11


Abraxis 
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History of Poland Map Development: 9/1/2017 11:55:57


҈ TeeMee123 ҈
Level 49
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for a single WL map, its best to have a single year represented by the map. you could do a series of maps of different dates, you could look at zxctycxz's maps for inspiration

Edited 9/1/2017 11:57:29
History of Poland Map Development: 9/1/2017 12:17:38


Abraxis 
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I was thinking to make a single year for the general map and the countries around it, but I would have bonuses for the different years of Poland's history, like the bonuses for the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.

Also, I'm wondering how much of the surrounding countries I should take in. Should I do something like this:


Or this:


Edited 9/1/2017 12:48:02
History of Poland Map Development: 9/2/2017 01:06:02


BUFFALO
Level 46
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bottom one, imo
History of Poland Map Development: 9/2/2017 08:51:47


Murk
Level 55
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Multiple bonuses for each time frame seems the easiest, but will be very, very, very messy.

It works for things like WW2 maps, because those can all use the same basic bonuses. The only thing that changes there is a few superbonuses.
When looking at the entire history of Poland, though, your basic bonuses will have to change too. Entire regions changed name and shape throughout those thousand years.
History of Poland Map Development: 9/2/2017 15:35:48


Abraxis 
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But the thing is that I will have the bonuses and names for countries/regions at a certain year, say 1610. However, I could draw the changes in borders throughout the years, and have the differences between those changes territories. To the right of the general map I might add years and periods of time when Poland changes, and make that a superbonus of 1.

The question I'm having though is how could this be used for diplomacies/ffas, and not make it only a 1 time thing. The "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" map gets used a lot, and I'd like my map to have that kind of consistency.

One more thing, how is it possible to add aesthetics like coastlines, oceans, forests, etc. into the map and make it show up?

Edited 9/2/2017 16:45:54
History of Poland Map Development: 9/2/2017 16:25:55


Murk
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But the thing is that I will have the bonuses and names for countries/regions at a certain year, say 1610. However, I could draw the changes in borders throughout the years, and have the differences between those changes territories. To the right of the general map I might add years and periods of time when Poland changes, and make that a superbonus of 1.


Yeah, you can. I just think it will easily get messy. With all bonuses enabled, it will be impossible to quickly see how much each territory is worth.
If you do, make sure you start every bonus with the year. Every - single - bonus - should start with a year. That way, it is easy for people making games on the map to disable certain years. Some might want to play on a map of Poland in 1939, others might want to play on a map of Poland in 1200. If you start all 1939 bonuses with "1939 [...]", it is easier to disable all those and leave only the bonuses from 1200.

The question I'm having though is how could this be used for diplomacies/ffas, and not make it only a 1 time thing. The "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" gets used a lot, and I'd like my map to have that kind of consistency.


Most diplomacy maps use the "1 bonus for 1 territory" system, while that's not often done for FFA's. Scenarios (like team games) and FFA's both mostly use bonuses with multiple territories. That's what I would go for.

One more thing, how is it possible to add aesthetics like coastlines, oceans, forests, etc. into the map and make it show up?


A question like this really deserves its own thread, because it would require a *huge* answer.

Main thing is that territories *always* get on top of other shapes. If you want something to show up within a territory, you'll have to cut the shape out of the territory.
Oceans and coastlines will just show up the same way you draw them in inkscape.
History of Poland Map Development: 9/2/2017 17:00:14


Abraxis 
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Yeah, you can. I just think it will easily get messy. With all bonuses enabled, it will be impossible to quickly see how much each territory is worth.
If you do, make sure you start every bonus with the year. Every - single - bonus - should start with a year. That way, it is easy for people making games on the map to disable certain years. Some might want to play on a map of Poland in 1939, others might want to play on a map of Poland in 1200. If you start all 1939 bonuses with "1939 [...]", it is easier to disable all those and leave only the bonuses from 1200.


What I was thinking is that, like "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" map, I would have the entire country show up as the superbonus, and show the year of that country in the bonus as well. The history of Poland's borders would be shown to the right of the map itself.

Example:

The map will be on the left, and the different superbonuses shown there will be on the right, depicting the country over time.
History of Poland Map Development: 9/2/2017 19:57:16


Abraxis 
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Ok, I have made research on how far Poland has actually extended in all cardinal directions, and I came to this:



I will make the map to fit this, but I could tilt the map so that it would adjust itself well.

What do you guys think?

Edited 9/2/2017 19:57:53
History of Poland Map Development: 9/2/2017 21:17:03


Murk
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As I said, the WW2 map is not really comparable, because it spans five years, instead of five centuries.

Of course you can have the Poland superbonus change - but small regions changed too. Entire cities didn't exist in 1000 that did in 1800.
The bonuses of three, four territories - those will have to change too.

As an example, take Silesia. Silesia will probably be important in your map, because a lot of wars have been fought over it. It has a distinctive shape.
However, when Poland first came into existence, the region Silesia didn't even exist yet. That distinctive shape didn't exist yet, because no region like that did. No one in there identified as Silesian - they all belonged to other regions that didn't exist anymore four hundred years later.

So, not only the biiiiig superbonuses will have to be listed: each and every small bonus will change over the course of the centuries too.
Even when Silesia did exist, its borders changed a lot over the years. If you want to reflect that, the territories will be swamped with different bonuses: Silesia 1000, Silesia 1100, Silesia 1150, Silesia 1300, etc. etc. etc.

So you do need to think about that. Will you drop historical accuracy for clarity? Will you drop clarity for accuracy? Will you take aesthetic liberties? Do you want to go all the way down to Poland's roots and up to the modern day, or will you take just a few centuries?
Those are questions that need to be answered.


---

Shape and location of the map seems fine!
I would go just a little farther west so Saxony fits into it too. The House of Wettin, historically rulers of Saxony, became monarchs of the Poland-Lithuania Commonwealth for quite some time, so I think fitting Saxony within the borders would be nice.

Edited 9/2/2017 21:18:32
History of Poland Map Development: 9/2/2017 21:28:17


Abraxis 
Level 55
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but small regions changed too. Entire cities didn't exist in 1000 that did in 1800.
The bonuses of three, four territories - those will have to change too.

As an example, take Silesia. Silesia will probably be important in your map, because a lot of wars have been fought over it. It has a distinctive shape.
However, when Poland first came into existence, the region Silesia didn't even exist yet. That distinctive shape didn't exist yet, because no region like that did. No one in there identified as Silesian - they all belonged to other regions that didn't exist anymore four hundred years later.

So, not only the biiiiig superbonuses will have to be listed: each and every small bonus will change over the course of the centuries too.
Even when Silesia did exist, its borders changed a lot over the years. If you want to reflect that, the territories will be swamped with different bonuses: Silesia 1000, Silesia 1100, Silesia 1150, Silesia 1300, etc. etc. etc.


ex. say I will make the map year set for 1610. I will have the bonus of Silesia or bonuses that make up Silesia set to the year of 1610. However, I may add a few territories that mark the boundary of Silesia over the years. Also, Silesia as a region was occupied by the HRE since Poland's founding, but I get the idea.


So you do need to think about that. Will you drop historical accuracy for clarity? Will you drop clarity for accuracy? Will you take aesthetic liberties? Do you want to go all the way down to Poland's roots and up to the modern day, or will you take just a few centuries?
Those are questions that need to be answered.


I will try to go as much into historical accuracy as I can, however, if the territories are too small or if there are too many territories in one area, I will drop that for clarity. Also, I'm going to go from the country's founding all the way up to the modern day.


Shape and location of the map seems fine!
I would go just a little farther west so Saxony fits into it too. The House of Wettin, historically rulers of Saxony, became monarchs of the Poland-Lithuania Commonwealth for quite some time, so I think fitting Saxony within the borders would be nice.


I will add Saxony into the map. Thank god http://www.worldmapgenerator.com/en/daVinci# exists. If it weren't for it I would lose myself trying to get the perfect proportions in for Inkscape.


PS: Thanks for the conflicts you bring up, this is a valuable step to the making of this map.

Edited 9/2/2017 21:43:29
History of Poland Map Development: 9/2/2017 21:49:53


Abraxis 
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Here's my final final map I'll be using to make this.



What do you guys think?

(Saxony is in there)

Also, after you are done making your map, is it possible to resize afterwards?

Edited 9/3/2017 01:32:36
History of Poland Map Development: 9/3/2017 07:23:05


Murk
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It is possible to resize, yeah. That's the beauty of vector programs: you can make them as big or small as you want without losing any detail.

Warlight maps have a maximum size, and to make the army numbers fit each territory should at least be 20 by 20 pixels wide. Other than that, you can resize as you wish.
History of Poland Map Development: 9/3/2017 12:08:52


Abraxis 
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Coastline done! Here's the image:



That red square there is the size of a 10-99 army, so as you can tell this will be big.

Edited 9/3/2017 12:09:47
History of Poland Map Development: 9/3/2017 13:29:53


apollong3
Level 53
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Problem with resizing, however, is that gaps between territories change as well, while their borders are always made to 1px by warlight. It's not that much of a problem, unless you are obsessive like me.

You can avoid that by first drawing ALL the necessary paths and dividing the territories at the end. This way you can scale it without that problem.
History of Poland Map Development: 9/3/2017 14:50:54


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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what about Tobago?
History of Poland Map Development: 9/3/2017 16:31:28


Abraxis 
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I don't know how I would show the connections with that, and fit it on the map.
History of Poland Map Development: 9/3/2017 17:03:38


҈ TeeMee123 ҈
Level 49
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Another point about scaling maps: you have to redo all the territory centre points on the warlight side of the map.
I did it once and redid them all and the borders which where not exactly overlapping (i.e. the borders between bonuses) did drift apart but it looked cool in the end ( https://www.warlight.net/SinglePlayer?PreviewMap=59735 ). It's not a bug, its a feature!
History of Poland Map Development: 9/3/2017 19:19:05


Abraxis 
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Every territory change between Poland's founding and the end of Boleslaw I's rule (966-1024).



(How am I doing so far?)
History of Poland Map Development: 9/3/2017 20:15:34


Abraxis 
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Edited 9/4/2017 01:11:45
History of Poland Map Development: 9/3/2017 20:30:53


Dutch Desire
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In the time of the Persenal Union with Lithuania, it was always registerd what part was under Poland and witch part under Lithuania. So imo, if you make a map about Poland, then exclude the Lithuania part. And Bohemia was only occupied from March 1003 till August 1004 as a sort of PU. Maybe only make a map of the territory that was part of the Polish crown.

Edited 9/3/2017 21:02:29
History of Poland Map Development: 9/3/2017 21:20:34


Abraxis 
Level 55
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I'm mostly using this as my guide though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfjKPPQL37I

I just copy the borders from there and take them to my map, adjust it, and draw.

I'm not only making a map about Poland, I'll do Lithuania later.

Edited 9/4/2017 01:11:04
History of Poland Map Development: 9/4/2017 01:10:42


Abraxis 
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Another problem: how do I fix the hole in the map without redrawing it again?



Thank you guys for all of the replies you've made so far.


EDIT: fixed, took 2 hours but fixed

Edited 9/4/2017 13:39:11
History of Poland Map Development: 9/4/2017 18:51:06


Abraxis 
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Need help: can't get this territory to do the division thing with the coastline



Any ideas?
History of Poland Map Development: 9/4/2017 18:54:09


apollong3
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You gotta do the division thing with the line on the right first
History of Poland Map Development: 9/4/2017 19:43:56


Abraxis 
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Did that, still deletes it.
History of Poland Map Development: 9/4/2017 20:32:20


apollong3
Level 53
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Tried redrawing it? I think it's some kind of bug
History of Poland Map Development: 9/4/2017 21:02:04


Abraxis 
Level 55
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Nope, same thing happens.

;-;
History of Poland Map Development: 9/4/2017 21:11:50


apollong3
Level 53
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what exactly gets deleted?
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