Ok, so I found a solution (which proposed by s1gmoyd too) for our template selection process, it would be an upgraded CS:GO map ban/pick/random system.

Upgraded, because we would have an additional template pool building phase before that template ban/pick system which was already shown by s1gmoyd above.

We have more options for this template pool building phase:

• Version 1: I, as the organizer, choose the templates for the template pool.
  As s1gmoyd proposed, in this case I would rely on the decision of the template panel, and simple use the fresh elected 12 major Tour template (Old 1v1 Ladder, New 1v1 Ladder, Biomes, Blitzkrieg and Greece, French Brawl, Guiroma 16%SR, BIV, Volcano Island, British Raj, Phobia SR, Macedonia NoSplit) plus one (It can be the 13th template in the election, which is Elitist Africa, but we have already an INSS template and EA is horror for colourblind players, so I skip it and choose the 14th which is China).
  
  • PRO
    
    • Very quick version (already done :))
      
    • Very simple
  • CONTRA
    
    • Not flexible enough
      
    • Only 13 choosable templates
      
    • Participants are not involved (although they all eight were members of the template panel ;))
• Version 2: Before the event, the participants build the template pool for the event.
  It would be a similar voting than the Phase 3 in the Seasonal template selection.
  All the 8 players would choose 13 templates in a specific order from the updated Tour template pool (so finishing the Tour template pool update is a prereq for this). Then those 8 votes will be resolved by an electoral system (choosing one system is a prereq too).
  For the sake of diversity, maybe the numbers of different template types would be determined. For example 2 very weird, 3 soft weird, 2 WR, 4 not vanilla SR, 2 vanilla SR (the Tour templates will be categorized based on these categories)). So the players would choose their 13 templates based on these proportions, or would be 5 voting rounds (one for each category).
  
  • PRO
    
    • Relatively quick (it is a one-time voting, before the event)
      
    • Participants are involved
  • CONTRA
    
    • Not flexible enough
      
    • Only 13 choosable templates in the fights
      
    • Not so simple
• Version 3: Before every fights would be a "simple" two-step template election process:
  
  • Template pool building phase by the two fighting players
    
  • Choosing the templates from that pool using a version of CS:GO ban/pick/random system.
  These individual template pool buildings would consist of the following steps:
  
  • Step 0: Organizer or the participants choose one template before the event.
    We will use this template only when even number of templates will be chosen by the two players (you will understand this later in the ban/pick/random phase ;))
    I, as organizer, would choose 1vs1 new ladder template, but it can be chosen by the participants (by a voting) too, before the event.
    
  • Step 1: Both players choose X templates from the updated Tour template pool (so finishing the Tour template pool update is a prereq for this), where X is the number from best of X (boX) format of the given rounds (for example bo1, bo3, bo5, bo7, bo9, etc.)
    Still a question that the players can choose those X templates completely free from the big Tour template pool or will be restrictions for the template category proportions.
    For example if it will be completely free then a player can choose only very weird templates, so half of the games will be played on her/his very extreme templates. I don't know yet, that it is a good or a bad thing :) If need, we can avoid this using mandatory template category proportions for choosing. Or another way, if we choose not only one template in step 0, but more (and always adding them to the templates choosed by the two players) so there will be more space for the other player to ban a few more very weird templates and play templates from step 0 rather than very weird.
    
  • Step 2: We check the templates choosed by the two players, and if there are common choices (both player choose the same templates), we check if the summarized template number is odd or even. If even, we add the template from step 0, because we need an odd number for the next ban/pick/random template choosing system
    • PRO
      
      • Very flexible (depends on the chosen restrictions)
        
      • Very much choosable templates
        
      • Additional strategic level (clever template choosing and banning) before the fights
        
      • Participants are involved
    • CONTRA
      
      • It seems very difficult (but not so difficult if you understand well and will use the system ;))
        
      • Need additional time for the invidual template pool building and template choosing steps (but it can be the part of the shows ;))

Ok, so I found these 3 possibilities (but I am open for yours too ;))
My personal favourite is version 3, but the very simple version 1 can be a good alternative.

----------------

And finally a few words about the ban/pick/random template choosing system too.
S1gmoyd already wrote a good description about the system, but missed the random step for example (if we need some randomness at all)

So given a best of X format, a decided template pool (with odd number of templates) and two players.
The two players can choose the X templates from the pool using a given variations of ban/pick/random steps.
The steps mean:

• ban - a player ban a (not already banned or picked earlier) template from the template pool (so that template won't be played)
  
• pick - a player pick a (not already banned or picked earlier) template from the template pool (so that template will be played)
  
• random - the system (a validated random algorithm in our case) will randomly pick a (not already banned or picked earlier) template from the template pool (so that template will be played)

And we can mix these steps as we want!

The player who can make her/his step first can be randomly choosed or can be the higher seeded player too.

So these are the (endless) possibilities.

My proposals:
The first step would be belong to the higher seeded player.
We don't need randomness here, so wouldn't be random steps.
The steps would be simple: 2ban, 2pick, 2ban, 2pick, 2ban until the necessary template number for boX remained (after that only pick steps for determine the play order).
If we will have big gap between the template pool and the template number to select, we can use more optimized versions too which was proposed by s1gmoyd above.

I am wonder your opinions and proposals.
Talk time! ;)

Edited 4/13/2019 05:30:57

Pick/Ban looks the most fun.

I am not sure I understand :|
Do you mean, you would better support a 2pick 2ban 2pick, etc. step order? (so 1-1 template pick before any ban? :O)
Or you just like this CS:GO style template choosing system?

And what about the template pool building versions?

Hello there! I was wondering if you could invite me to AWP?

I think P/B would be cool too. Maybe the initial template pool could be collectively voted on?

Hey, sorry for interrupting; but I want to draw attention to this post (an earlier post on this forum):

AWP World Tour Magazine: 5/30/2017 06:24:11

This requires update.

Personally I'd be happy to have the updated list of templates, and an updated list of the upcoming events (the google sheet is not up-tp-date).

I know you've got many things to do, but to me this looks like "the way" to let us -the players- have a better picture of the Tour.

Thanks.

Ahh, I found it (wasn't simple because I have -1 hour time zone from you :)), I updated it, but only with "under construction" text.

Well, I am (parallel) working on it, I am already in the last phase.

Until then here are some info we have already:

Grand Slam templates:

• Old 1v1 Ladder (Strat ME 0% WR)
  
• New 1v1 Ladder (Strat MME 0% SR)
  
• Biomes of America
  
• Blitzkrieg Borg

Masters templates:

• Strategic Greece
  
• French Brawl
  
• Guiroma 16% SR
  
• Battle Island V
  
• Volcano Island
  
• British Raj MDL version
  
• Phobia SR
  
• Macedonia No Split

500 Series templates:

• China
  
• EA&O
  
• Strategic Commanders
  
• Fast Earth
  
• Pangea Ultima
  
• Elitist Africa
  
• Hannibal at the Gates
  
• GME III
  
• Poland
  
• Cat Fight
  
• Succession Wars LD
  
• Malvia

Fixed 250 Series templates:

• Gelvien Islands
  
• Belarus
  
• Georgia Army Cap
  
• Turkey LD
  
• MA Battle Island V
  
• Sumo
  
• Treasure Map
  
• Numenor
  
• EarthSea
  
• Concordia (the changed version by Alex)
  
• MDL Australia

So these are the updated 35 of 50 templates for fixed events. I mean:

• every first Mondays of the Months will start a major event (Grand Slam or Masters),
  
• every second Mondays of the Months (except December where will be only two events and after a Tour Holiday) will start a fixed 250 Series event and
  
• every third Mondays of the Months (except December, then will be second Monday) will start a 500 Series event.

And for the rest 15 Mondays (fourth and fift Mondays of the Months) we won't use fixed templates, instead will be template pools (by categories), and after the Monthly update posts I will create a forum topic where the community can choose one (or two if will be 5 Mondays in the next Month) 250 Series template for the next Month from a given pool(s), or even the community can propose brand new templates too which aren't included in the template pools yet (in this case the template panel will validate first that new template, and then will become part of the template pool and maybe will be choosed for next month too).

This won't be a voting (it would be too long and difficult to organize that), I will choose the template(s) but very based on your posts. This is because I would like that the templates on the Tour won't be a static things but dynamic. I hope that these monthly topics (which will be an interface for the community regarding Tour templates) and the not fixed 15 events and template pools will guarantee this.

-----------------

The other big changes will be (but only from 2020) that the present Seasons will be ceased, at least in their present form.
Won't be time segregated but distributed seasons.
I mean, now we have seasons segregated by time. We have 29 continuous weeks when opened SR events only, then 13 weeks when weird settings events only, then 8 week with WR events only. This is not very optimal, because for example:

• if you hate the WR settings you will have 8 weeks pause on the Tour.
  
• or if you adore the weird settings, you will must join too much tournaments in that 13 weeks period (and you will have uncomfortable many ongoing games)
  
• or if you get bored of SR settings, well then you have damned long boring period on the Tour now :|

So instead of time segregation we will distribute the different type of templates evenly over the months.

-----------------

So this is the present status and plans.
Now, I am collecting the templates for the template pools, then template panel will validate them.
But I understand you, so I give priority to this, and I will create a fixed schedule for 2019 Clay (weird) season asap.
And thank you for your patience.

I like your proposal for the Finals Ekstone.

Only difference is that Version 3 may lead to too many misunderstandings. Version 1 would be my choice.

Sorry but I don't understand version 3 at all :P It's too complicated.
The template pool in version 1 is diverse enough, I'd go with that one.
Btw I'm pretty sure that in pick/ban systems it's advantageous to go last, not first.

Hello there! I was wondering if you could invite me to AWP?

Hi, I added you to my invitation list, GL&HF!

----------------------------
About the template pool building phase:

Maybe the initial template pool could be collectively voted on?

What does "collectively" mean? Version 2, where the 8 participants voted on? Or do you mean the whole Tour community? :O

Sorry but I don't understand version 3 at all :P It's too complicated.

Or my English is not enough good to describe it well :(

Version 3 may lead to too many misunderstandings

I am sure, if you would see it in practice you would understand and like it ;)

Version 1 would be my choice.

The template pool in version 1 is diverse enough, I'd go with that one.

Ok, I see.
Although, I am thinking about a mixed version. I mean, that the two semifinals and the Finals would be version 3 (that means only 3 fights, and I really would like to show you how the version 3 runs in practice) the rest would be version 1 (so we will be able to see both versions in practice)

----------------------------
About the ban/pick/random template choosing phase:

Pick/Ban looks the most fun.

I think P/B would be cool too

Btw I'm pretty sure that in pick/ban systems it's advantageous to go last, not first.

Guys, help me that when you wrote "Pick/Ban" (or "P/B") you only refer to template choosing system generally or you want to say that picking steps before any bans would be better?

@Rento: why do you think that it's advantageous to go last?

I meant the 8 players involved when I said collectively. Meant the Picks/Bans choosing system in general would be interesting to try.

By pick/ban I mean when there's already an initial pool of templates and players take turns picking/banning them.

It's advantageous to go last because it lets you react to opponent moves and you have less chance of wasting your own moves.
Example: both players love MME. Player A picks MME. Player B can now pick his 2nd favourite template. It's a clear advantage if you know what I mean.

The advantage gets bigger as template pool is smaller. In extreme scenario, when 2 players pick 1 template each from a pool of 3, the first player to make a choice has (statistically) a 1-in-3 chance to waste his move by picking the same template his opponent would pick. The second player who makes the final pick out of 2 templates remaining has no chance to waste his move anymore.

All I said applies to map/template picking, where you FORCE opponent to play the settings you like. It doesn't apply to something like LoL character picking, where you pretty much STEAL the character from your opponent. Just to be clear.

THANKS

Can you keep inviting me to these?

@Viking1007
You are welcome!

@{101st} Syphen
Yes, you are in my friend list (=invitation list), you will be invited on Wednesdays until unsubscribe.

-------------------------------

@FSG, Rento
Thank you for clarifying, so you meant Picks/Bans choosing system in general, and not refer to the step order.

It's advantageous to go last because it lets you react to opponent moves and you have less chance of wasting your own moves.
Example: both players love MME. Player A picks MME. Player B can now pick his 2nd favourite template. It's a clear advantage if you know what I mean.

Interesting, but you are right. I mean interesting, because I remember that I read that the first step is better and belong to the higher seeded team in CS:GO. Maybe I read this when not simple 2bans 2picks 2bans was implemented but other step order where really better the first step, I dunno. Because the combination of the steps are endless, only depends on us which one will be used.

The advantage gets bigger as template pool is smaller. In extreme scenario, when 2 players pick 1 template each from a pool of 3, the first player to make a choice has (statistically) a 1-in-3 chance to waste his move by picking the same template his opponent would pick. The second player who makes the final pick out of 2 templates remaining has no chance to waste his move anymore.

Although this is not true imo. I mean here no wasted picks, because the remained template will be used for the decider game (in case of 1-1). Or if you have best of one (bo1) format, then after two bans the remained template will be played. But your previous paragraph is still true (in case of 2bans 2picks 2bans, etc. combination). And your last paragraph is true as well, the situation is very different when you stealing and not forcing things.

Ok, the simplest solution is that the higher seeded player will decide if he wants to be first or second ;)

As I promised, I created fixed schedule for 2019 Clay (weird) season:

• Clay season (weird templates) 2019
  
  • Already started events:
    
    • 11/March/2019 - 250 Series - Georgia ArmyCap
      https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=28887
      
    • 18/March/2019 - 500 Series - Elitist Africa
      https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=28983
      
    • 25/March/2019 - 250 Series - MA Battle Island V
      https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=29058
      
    • 01/April/2019 - Grand Slam - Blitzkrieg Bork
      https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=29125
      
    • 08/April/2019 - 250 Series - Sumo
      https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=29156
      
    • 15/April/2019 - 500 Series - Fast Earth
      https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=29205
  • Future events:
    
    • 22/April/2019 - 250 Series - Strategic Commanders
      https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=16392917
      
    • 29/April/2019 - 250 Series - Turkey LD
      https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=16464744
      
    • 06/May/2019 - Masters 1000 - Biomes of America
      https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=16462151
      
    • 13/May/2019 - 250 Series - Poland
      https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=16009357
      
    • 20/May/2019 - 500 Series - Macedonia No Split
      https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=15664844
      
    • 27/May/2019 - 250 Series - Succession Wars LD
      https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=14243666
      
    • 03/June/2019 - Masters 1000 - French Brawl
      https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=16675349
  
  Remark: from 2020, Biomes will be a Grand Slam, Macedonia will be a Masters, Strategic Commanders, Succession Wars LD and Poland will be 500 Series events in the new (not time segregated) system.
  
  I updated the Future events part with this too:
  https://www.warlight.net/Forum/262655-awp-world-tour-magazine?Offset=4
  
  I updated the google docs as well (until the WR part)
  
  The constans templates section will be updated after the template pools will be created and validated plus a long time schedule will be fixed.

I updated the Future events part with this too:
https://www.warlight.net/Forum/262655-awp-world-tour-magazine?Offset=4

I updated the google docs as well (until the WR part)

Thank you!

It is Thursday. Why haven't I been invited?

@Ƨillynamenace
You are welcome!

@Viking1007
As you recognized in your mail, you have been invited, only this Fast Earth template seems very popular and filled in 2 hours :O
I replied to your mail.

Thanks