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Witty Picks / Moves: 11/16/2013 17:15:10


Unreality 
Level 50
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This thread you can post witty picks / moves with this format:

1. game link
2. which turn to look at
3. some explanations why you think it's witty

Let me start first

1. http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=4860725
2. turn 1
3. Krzychu successfully delayed his attack to dreuj to the 4th order.
Witty Picks / Moves: 11/17/2013 08:28:31


alababi
Level 47
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Witty Picks / Moves: 11/17/2013 09:26:16


Unreality 
Level 50
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Indeed I'm still a newbie/noob :)

I think its uncommon to delay your first turn attack to 4th order when you only have 3 territories.

Edited 11/17/2013 10:11:47
Witty Picks / Moves: 11/17/2013 11:10:13


alababi
Level 47
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Witty Picks / Moves: 11/17/2013 11:29:53


Unreality 
Level 50
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i cant imagine what will the result be if ur opponent picked FTB as 1st and 2nd and not picking CR as 3rd. your picks only work well if u know exactly what ur opponents pick. Your game shows a very good counter pick to that opponent, not for the general cases out there.

after reviewing it again, no, your pick isnt a good pick, if ur pick needs to capture the bonus in 2 turns, it requires four 3v2 to be successful, and also both 4v2 left you with 3 units. That is around 15% of success rate i guess? You are just being lucky

Edited 11/17/2013 12:00:53
Witty Picks / Moves: 11/17/2013 12:34:40


Unreality 
Level 50
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Pick stolen from Dead Piggy's thread http://warlight.net/Forum/Thread?ThreadID=17965

1. http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=5172482
2. Picks
3. >countering the bonus that supports the first turn bonus. This was almost unwinnable for red after picks.
Witty Picks / Moves: 11/17/2013 12:55:55


alababi
Level 47
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i cant imagine what will the result be if ur opponent picked FTB as 1st and 2nd and not picking CR as 3rd. your picks only work well if u know exactly what ur opponents pick. Your game shows a very good counter pick to that opponent, not for the general cases out there.

after reviewing it again, no, your pick isnt a good pick, if ur pick needs to capture the bonus in 2 turns, it requires four 3v2 to be successful, and also both 4v2 left you with 3 units. That is around 15% of success rate i guess? You are just being lucky


How the hell he cannot get the first spot? And I knew I was very lucky that day so my picks were absolutely perfect.
Witty Picks / Moves: 11/18/2013 00:48:08


Kenny • apex 
Level 59
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@alababi: I disagree on it being good at all. Say you get your 1/2/3. So what? Say your opponent picks 1 CA 2 Scand 3 SA or some variation of such.. you'd only have surprise on your side. Your opponent has more outside expansion options, and by the time your opponent figures out where you are, you're not going to be able to finish Cauc, and he'll border you in Canada before you can finish, leaving you with only East China as outside expansion.. it's bad.

@Unreality:

http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=5065527

The entire game.

Nord's picks gave him great intel, and he uses it quite well. Featherbucket counter plays very well and almost won but inevitably couldn't re-enter Africa like he wanted to.
Witty Picks / Moves: 11/18/2013 02:44:09

JSA 
Level 59
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In my opinion, the game between Nord and Featherbucket is nothing special. Featherbucket's picks weren't good, he had no bonuses he could count on to be safe, so he had to expand in West Africa, hoping Nord wasn't in East Africa. Nord's picks aren't good either, what if he had gotten his 1,3, and 5? Featherbucket's play was good, while Nord's was merely decent. Featherbucket should have never had a chance after picks.

Overall: Subpar picks from what I'm used to seeing out of Featherbucket, and decent picks from Nord. Good play from Featherbucket, decent play from Nord.
Witty Picks / Moves: 11/18/2013 02:54:28

JSA 
Level 59
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http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=5176575 is a better picked played game in my opinion, despite Dodo commander still shaking the rust off. The only thing I disagree with on Dodo's picks is the order of his 3 and 4. Kryzchu's are good except for his 6, which should be in West China. Since Kryzchu gets first pick, dodo has a huge intel advantage off picks and plays it well. Even if dodo got first pick, he would still have the advantage off picks, but as it was, Kryzchu had very little chance. On expansion, Kryzchu makes a few tiny errors, but the only difference would have been one more army on the front lines to defend from Dodo. Dodo has a 2/3 chance of winning the game on turn 4 and he does. But even if he had picked wrong, he still had the positional advantage plus was one turn ahead on the card piece. Perhaps not an excellent game from either side but the whole game was well played by both sides.

Also: http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=5152921

Verzeher goes with the first turn bonus, Falker goes to counter the support first turn bonus. Falker knows two territories of Verzeher's while Verzeher only knows one but can easily guess a second one (Antarctica). Verzeher plays flawlessly and once he gets ahead a card piece by luck, it is 100% over. Falker plays a good game, but gets beat by the first turn bonus and great play by Verzeher.

A game from a while back (about a year ago): http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=3413921
Turn 7, I like my move to blockade Georgia. I'm not sure why I chose that turn to blockade but it worked perfectly for me. This is probably my favorite game from all time because it was the first game where I beat a great player that didn't play bad against me. Sure I got lucky, but for me, winning it was a great experience! Don't look at other moves apart from that blockade though, I made many small mistakes in it.

Edited 11/18/2013 03:07:29
Witty Picks / Moves: 11/18/2013 04:08:21


[REGL] Pooh 
Level 60
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Sorry If I shared with you already in a previous thread:

http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=4957199
Turn 11

Despite being outnumbered 2:1 at the Scand/West Russia Border at the start of the turn, perfectly timed ninja moves allowed me to keep the bonus.

Turn 12 was just luck in defending, but it evened the playing field and led to the win.
Witty Picks / Moves: 11/18/2013 04:23:39


Khalid
Level 55
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I have not much experience on warlight, but from when I play, picking all 3 picks in the same area usually does not work if the opponent is a strong player. How did Alababi's picks work so perfectly in that game he posted? And from what I see, if Alababi gets first pick, then wouldn't he get all of his first 3 picks, and REDSOXWINTHEWORLDSERIES would get Blue 5 bonus and first turn bonus in Central America. Wouldn't REDSOX win if that was the case?

Sorry if these questions are dumb, I am still very new here and trying to get a grasp on some of the finer points of warlight.
Witty Picks / Moves: 11/18/2013 05:01:51


Kenny • apex 
Level 59
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You're correct. If REDSOX hadn't gotten first pick he'd be fine. His picks didn't work perfectly, he still had to rely on both full leftovers and 4 3v2s.. miss 1 and you delay entry to CR, REDSOX can outplay the situation.
Witty Picks / Moves: 11/18/2013 05:02:31


Unreality 
Level 50
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but khalid and Lolowut, thats different. As Alababi said he knew he was lucky that day. His picks was surely the best fit companied with his luck. Other safe pick strategies would not utilize his luck so well :)

Edited 11/18/2013 05:03:23
Witty Picks / Moves: 11/18/2013 05:20:59


alababi
Level 47
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with my picks, if I lose my first one, I'd win as the game happened. But if I got my triple picks, I will got eastern Russia then I will expand to Canada then got all the two 5 bonuses in America then to Greenland then to Europe. So in the end, I will become very big and can crush Boston easily. Ergo, my picks were absolutely perfect in this game.

Q.E.D

Edited 11/19/2013 03:20:39
Witty Picks / Moves: 11/18/2013 05:26:50


Unreality 
Level 50
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Some suggestions:

Read about efficient bonuses:
Efficient bonuses are those bonuses that have higher "bonus/territories count" ratio.

Skilled players will generally avoid picking inefficient bonuses at starting picks (except for countering others)

Central Russia and Greenland are efficient bonuses

While Eastern Russia, Canada, US, Europe are inefficient bonuses.

Alababi if you enjoy the game, please support Fizzer, become a member and play ladder games, learn from the top players and you will understand why those top players in this thread does not suggest your picks as good picks.

I know your picks are fine for you in that game. But there are mechanisms behind the picking that made the top players suggest some other better picks for you.

I apologize if I'm not nice enough in my previous replies to you.

Edited 11/18/2013 05:42:36
Witty Picks / Moves: 11/18/2013 05:44:30


alababi
Level 47
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The biggest bonuses in the map are China, east Russia and the parts in North America. And after you take all three parts in North America, you can expand to Greenland then to Europe. And from China, you can take Caucasus as well. That is the perfect chain of bonuses to capture. So eventually, you will have all the big bonuses (except Aussie of course). With that many bonuses, your income will be 46 in the end, and that is enough to win the game.

That is how to win most games. My level is higher than yours, I know what Im talking about here.

Q.E.D

Edited 11/18/2013 07:52:57
Witty Picks / Moves: 11/18/2013 06:01:20


Unreality 
Level 50
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@Loluwut
>http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=5065527

Wow amazing counter pick for Nord! But there's a 50% chance failing at Turn 5 attacking Moscow/Murmansk. If he failed to attack the right territory, Featherbucket will have enough to defend and overrun Nord.
Witty Picks / Moves: 11/19/2013 02:19:59


Sir Dolphin VI 
Level 56
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Alabali, you're right. The best bonuses are the BIGGEST bonuses. You should totally ignore income/territory ratio, safety, counters, etc. and just head for those BIG BIG BIG bonuses. Then you'll always win. It's the perfect strategy!

...

No. Bonuses like East Russia, Canada, etc. are (usually) best left unused. Why? Because...
A. They can't be taken in 2 turns without triple picks (Why is triple picking bad? Read below).
B. They grant you less armies in terms of income/territory ratio (5/7 < 3/4. Here's why: http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=4532259 )
C. Even if you use a triple pick to take a 7 territory bonus, after your temporary boost in armies, you will find it difficult to expand, and your foe will overtake you. ( Why triple picking doesn't work: http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=5151480 )

As for your plan of expanding until you get a large amount of income, that is also flawed. You see, eventually you will meet your opponent, right? And I assume you want to have the army advantage when you two meet, right? Because of this, once you complete the bonuses you started out with, it's best to figure out where your opponent picked and advance in that direction with a fairly large stack of armies, so that he will be taken by surprise and be rendered helpless against your numbers. This does not mean you SHOULDN'T expand after taking your starting bonuses, it's just not a good idea to constantly expand without thinking about where your enemy is. Trust me, it works. (And since i love to show off my pathetic, cowardly beating up of noobs, here's more evidence this strategy works: http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=4616493)

Oh wait, I guess my level's slightly lower than yours. Never mind; I take back everything I said. You win.

Edited 11/19/2013 02:28:18
Witty Picks / Moves: 11/19/2013 02:48:37


myhandisonfire 
Level 54
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tripple pick can work.
Witty Picks / Moves: 11/19/2013 03:12:16


alababi
Level 47
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@Dolphin: as your level is lower than mine, you're less experienced and dont know much about the game as I do. Im a warlight senior here and I know what Im talking about.

As I have said before, to win the 1v1 games, your income have to be higher than your opponents. And the biggest bonuses in the map are Caucasus, China, East Russia, Canada, 2 parts of USA, Greenland and Europe( an exception is Aussie of course). And these big bonuses are linked to each other pretty well.

So since East Russia is the center of the bonuses chain, once you already capture East Russia, you can expand to the other big bonuses. So in the end, your income will always higher than your opponent's and you can crush him easily to win the game.

Thats exactly how to win 1v1 strategic games.

I repeat again, my level is pretty high. Those whose levels are lower than mine should keep their mouths shut because I've played more games than you. I know more about the game than you do.

Q.E.D

Edited 11/19/2013 03:13:36
Witty Picks / Moves: 11/19/2013 03:28:41

Jehovah 
Level 58
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@Dolphin and Allah Baby: as your level is lower than mine, you're less experienced and dont know much about the game as I do. Im a warlight senior here and I know what Im talking about.

The key to winning Strat 1v1 games is picking wastelands. This will surprise your opponent. Build up a big stack and attack your opponent from surprise. And the biggest bonuses in the map are Caucasus, China, East Russia, Canada, 2 parts of USA, Greenland and Europe( an exception is Aussie of course). And these big bonuses are linked to each other pretty well. This means that the probability of a wasteland in these bonuses are largest.

So since East Russia is the center of the bonuses chain, once you build a stack East Russia, you can expand to the other big bonuses. So in the end, you will always surprise your opponent

If it seems that you have lost...
give him this look



Beg him for a vote to end, use 'PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE' repeatdely and attempt to stall the game until your opponentfinaly gives in.

Thats exactly how to win 1v1 strategic games.

I repeat again, my level is pretty high. Those whose levels are lower than mine should keep their mouths shut because I've played more games than you. I know more about the game than you do.

Edited 11/19/2013 03:29:56
Witty Picks / Moves: 11/19/2013 03:30:41


Unreality 
Level 50
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Let's summon a higher level player to tell alababi that he is wrong. I mean, with his theory what the higher level said should be enough to override his statement.

Help! We need a higher level player here! lol

edit: opps thx Brain, you came in the right time

Edited 11/19/2013 03:31:25
Witty Picks / Moves: 11/19/2013 03:47:54


alababi
Level 47
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Of course I was joking about the levels. Since the level system was just introduced not long ago so there are a lot of experienced players with low levels.

And of course, Brain can be right since he's been playing a lot of games.

What I mean here is that, Unreality, you're the least experienced here so you still dont get the big pictures yet. You need to play more games to fully understand how to win 1v1 games.

The trick of 1v1 games is to have a higher income than your opponent and then you can crush him to win. That works for me all the time.

And the best bonuses in the 1v1 map is the big bonuses chain, from Caucasus to China to Russia to North America. Once you have all these big bonuses, you will very likely win the games since your income will be very big.
Witty Picks / Moves: 11/19/2013 04:29:39


Unreality 
Level 50
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Alababi I would like to learn more, would you mind to show me one of your games that, in the shortest number of turn, reaching 12+ units production per turn? I would like to use it as a reference.
Witty Picks / Moves: 11/19/2013 04:36:05


alababi
Level 47
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Alababi I would like to learn more, would you mind to show me one of your games that, in the shortest number of turn, reaching 12+ units production per turn? I would like to use it as a reference.


http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=5172325
Witty Picks / Moves: 11/19/2013 04:42:02


Unreality 
Level 50
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brilliant, but strategic medium earth pls :)
Witty Picks / Moves: 11/19/2013 04:49:30


Garrett
Level 56
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I am 90% certain alababi's still trolling... But for the sake of that last 10%, as well as any other players who are reading this thread and still don't get it, I'll give my best shot at an explanation.

I'm going to assume that this is an expansion race pure and simple for the sake of simplicity. If you truly want to have a larger income than your opponent, than that means you're looking to get as much income as you can for as few territories as you can. Every territory you capture is costing you armies, usually 2 - 3 since you have to leave one behind. These are armies that could be better spent expanding elsewhere.

For this reason, the number of territories in a bonus matters. In most strategic maps, you'll notice that there is often one less income given than territories you have to take (eg. Central America has 4 territories, and gives 3 income). You could say then that the first territory you take in a bonus is worthless, and every territory you take from then on is worth one income. That shows how a larger bonus is usually more valuable, since more of its territories are worth something.

However, not all bonuses follow this formula. North America, The Middle East, East Russia, etc. all have 2 less armies given than territories taken. That means two territories in that bonus are worthless. Instead of taking East Russia's 7 territories which give 5 income, you could take East China's 7 territories which give 6 income, possibly giving you that extra income boost needed to win the game.

The easiest way to analyze how valuable a bonus is, is to simply figure out how much income is being given per territory in that bonus. 3 income / 4 territories (0.75) < 4 income / 5 territories (0.8) for instance.

Of course, there's so much more that needs to be taken into account before deciding if a bonus should be taken. Larger bonuses are often easier to break into, so safety is a huge deal. They also take longer to capture, so if you stumble upon an opponent in the middle of capturing one, you might not have the income to finish it.

Anyways, I hope I helped anyone who didn't fully understand this concept.
Witty Picks / Moves: 11/19/2013 05:45:14


alababi
Level 47
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@Unreality: I've played nearly a thousand games so it will take a lot of time to search through my game history to find the games you want. But Im pretty sure that I've reached 12+ just after 2 turns in so many games. This is nothing special actually if you got a lot of experience with the game like me. You just need to play more games, gain more experience and get to a higher level and you will understand what I mean.

What Im saying here is a little complicated for the newbies like you to understand. Warlight after all is so complex that you need a lot of deep thinking, intuition and imagination to understand and play.

So, as a senior player, my advice to you in 1v1 games is that. YOU NEED TO INCREASE YOUR INCOME BY TAKING BONUSES. Thats the certain way to beat your opponents. The biggest bonuses in the Medium Earth Map are Caucasus, China, East Russia, Canada, 2 parts of America, Greenland then Europe. That creates a perfect chain of bonuses for you to capture.

Of course, you also have to watch for wastelands. Do not pick wastelands, that will be a waste. Hence the name "wastelands".

To elucidate my point, I will use the games I've played with REDSOXWINTHEWORLDSERIES2013(AHOL) as examples.

I've played with REDSOXWINTHEWORLDSERIES2013(AHOL) 5 games and I won 5-0 in a row so REDSOXWINTHEWORLDSERIES2013(AHOL) is so scared of me that he never dares to play 1v1 with me ever again.

>> http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=5116355

* Here I picked East Russia and won.

>> http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=5122418
* Here I picked East Russia again and won

>> http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=5116875
* Here I triple picked and won

>> http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=5116726
* The guy surrendered @ first turn

>> http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=5116293
* I picked Canada this game and won


----------------------------------

That's this. Actions speak more than words. I've beaten REDSOXWINTHEWORLDSERIES2013(AHOL) 5-0 in a row and he never dares to play with me again. He is a very good player but my perfect picks always won. Not many players can beat REDSOXWINTHEWORLDSERIES2013(AHOL) 5-0 in a row like me. And nobody else can scare that guy like me.
Witty Picks / Moves: 11/19/2013 06:04:19


Unreality 
Level 50
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Thanks Pulsey for the examples. The readers are well entertained but you should privately mail this to deadly pig

Edited 11/19/2013 06:14:08
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