Actually, out of the whole $3.7 trillion in taxes that the government collects annually, only 16% of it or around $580 billion goes to the military (1).

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN10U1IG

Since the average income in the US is $51,000, this works out to around $5,610 paid in taxes per year, of which $689 will go to "bombers and tanks". Even if you're not okay with paying those $689 for weapons well guess what, it's still a douchebag thing to refuse to pay the other 95% of your taxes that go to other stuff.

Taxation. Is. Theft.

Edited 9/2/2016 16:19:03

Of course democracy isn't based on justice. But that doesn't mean that democracy can't serve a just purpose.

Would you say that overruling a democratically elected government is more justifiable than allowing the government to have authority over its own citizens?

Edited 9/2/2016 16:23:35

I do not engage in the political processes of the state I live in.

However, I do not agree with your presumption that democracy equals evil. Democracy can be a means by which a people are released from oppression. Democracy can be used for good.

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan is a democratic state. The State of Qatar is a democratic state. Both are Islamic countries. Democracy has not brought them stability and security in their respective societies, however you cannot reject them, their leaders or the way they choose to run their countries due to it.

Democracy was not chosen by the majority of the world. It was forced upon them.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN10U1IG

I'm not sure if this is a credible source, but I'm serious, I read like 5 sentences and the article said something like "The military spent $6.5 trillion extra in 2015", and I literally lol'd, like where the hell are they getting 30% of the US GDP from?

Taxation. Is. Theft.

Well no, taxation is taxation, it's the price you have to pay for living in a country and using the services it provides for you. I do agree that there should be less taxes, but honestly it's pretty entitled position to claim that you should get the protection and services that a government offers you and not have to pay for it. That just isn't how economics work tbh.

Edited 9/2/2016 16:45:23

taxation is taxation

Doesn't change that it's theft

it's the price you have to pay for living in a country and using the services it provides for you.

It's the money stolen from you by the feudal lords that occupy the land you're on. They monopolize services to justify their grand thievery.

but honestly it's pretty entitled position to claim that you should get the protection and services that a government offers you and not have to pay for it

Privatize it

Edited 9/2/2016 16:46:54

Well no, taxation is taxation, it's the price you have to pay for living in a country and using the services it provides for you. I do agree that there should be less taxes, but honestly it's pretty entitled position to claim that you should get the protection and services that a government offers you for free.

Rulership is a privilege. It's a trust. If you mismanage your authority, you're answerable firstly to the people you oppress, then to God.

The anti-dodging tax directive of the UE has been voted by the EU parlement, which is elected by the people just like irish representatives are. Also, it's not because my government is elected that I must agree with it giving tax dodges to profitable corporations, I suspect the irish feel the same as me about it.

Unless there's an irish referendum on wether to give Apple tax benefits and not other companies, the decision to give them these tax benefits are as democratic as the one taking them out, as in both cases elected representatives passed the bill. And before you say that the EU shouldnt take decisions for the irish, they also voted to join it.

Edited 9/2/2016 16:56:36

It's the money stolen from you by the feudal lords that occupy the land you're on. They monopolize services to justify their grand thievery.

Nobodies stealing anything from you, if you don't like paying taxes go to somalia or iraq or somewhere else where you won't be forced to pay. If you want to live on someones land and use it, you have to follow their rules, just like if you act like an ass in a bar you get thrown out.

If the rule is you have to pay 11% of your money for the privilege of being allowed to use their land then that's the rule, and if you find this too oppressive you can go to a place with different rules. However, you obviously don't consider it to be too oppressive, since last I checked you weren't playing from somalia.

Privatize it

Privatizing everything is a pretty bad idea, the first one that comes to mind being the fire department. If there is a private fire service, at best there is competition for their resources in a commercial setting, and at worst there is room for corruption since they might like, you know, go around setting people's houses on fire to then charge to put out.

Nobodies stealing anything from you, if you don't like paying taxes go to somalia or iraq or somewhere else where you won't be forced to pay

"I'm not stealing from you, you don't like it, leave your home." - Bandit

If you want to live on someones land

The government doesn't own this land, they have no moral claim to it, and taxes are not voluntary.

If the rule is you have to pay 11% of your money for the privilege of being allowed to use their land then that's the rule, and if you find this too oppressive you can go to a place with different rules. However, you obviously don't consider it to be too oppressive, since last I checked you weren't playing from somalia.

We can change the rules to something more sensible, so no, your "it's da rulz"! argument is null.

Privatizing everything is a pretty bad idea, the first one that comes to mind being the fire department. If there is a private fire service, at best there is competition for their resources in a commercial setting, and at worst there is room for corruption since they might like, you know, go around setting people's houses on fire to then charge to put out.

If a fire department is starting fires to drum up service, hire another fire department.

The government doesn't own this land, they have no moral claim to it, and taxes are not voluntary.

It depends which country you live in. In Britain (and, I believe, in other constituent countries of the Commonwealth Realm) the Crown actually owns most of the land. You can only hold land by an indefinite lease which the reigning monarch may legally cancel at any time.

If a fire department is starting fires to drum up service, hire another fire department.

Completely agree on this one. :)

"I'm not stealing from you, you don't like it, leave your home." - Bandit

Except it's not your home, you are literally living on the land of a sovereign nation. If you think you can live on the land of another entity without following their rules then you're the bandit, not the entity who is requesting that you follow their rules.

The government doesn't own this land, they have no moral claim to it, and taxes are not voluntary.

The government owns the land because they say so and people agree with them, there's no moral claim necessary. If you'd like to dispute their ownership then you're welcome to do so, but it probably won't work out too well for you given the billions of people who will tell you that you're full of crap.

We can change the rules to something more sensible, so no, your "it's da rulz"! argument is null.

Sure we can, but it hasn't been done yet. Until the rules are changed, these are the ones we're stuck with.

If a fire department is starting fires to drum up service, hire another fire department.

What if one fire department creates a monopoly on fire department services?

Apple doesn't create jobs in Ireland, the jobs are in the us, they just pay their taxes in Ireland. That's called tax-dodging and in fact hurt the US.

Are you sure? I think there are countries with lower taxes than that, like some Caribbean countries.

Tax dodgers are heroes; go anyone who wants to evade robbery

or maybe they just go to robbery to another country? and maybe they're not heros, since they're just leaving others without knack to hide money, with less money to pay more. Also, it's not robbery, it's I think in English "extortion".

also is it robbery or extortion to take something away from you that was not guaranteed in the first stead and was never yours?

If a fire department is starting fires to drum up service, hire another fire department.

Why would you care? if they promise not to send your home on fire, it's incent to hire those that do. Fully privatising some things can be really really awful, like health-related stuff. Folk would be misled by advertising (happens today in countries without regulation on it), and untruths. For example, heroin marketed under name "Let's go" and marketed as an antidepressant. Or getting surgeries that you just don't need at all, or even marketing placebos as actual medicines. This would be a comeback to dark times.

Are you sure? I think there are countries with lower taxes than that, like some Caribbean countries.

But Ireland is in the EU, and open trade with EU countries means if you got a deal there, you got it easy in the EU.

However, it is my opinion that if the EU is to succeed, it must let Capitalism do its thing. Monopolies are created by demand, not government regulation.

^
Monopolies don't exist.

No they don't because we have nice anti-trust laws established to destroy monopolies. I don't get the impression that MGSB is in favor of these though.

Idaho doesn't exist

If a fire department is starting fires to drum up service, hire another fire department.

You're funny

So you have no choice in the market because reasons?

Except it's not your home

Yes it is; I'm not giving it up to some damned feudal lord in Washington

If you think you can live on the land of another entity without following their rules then you're the bandit, not the entity who is requesting that you follow their rules.

If you think you can use guns to steal money from everyone in some arbitrary plot of land, you're an illegitimate tyrant who should be hung.

The government owns the land because they say so and people agree with them, there's no moral claim necessary. If you'd like to dispute their ownership then you're welcome to do so, but it probably won't work out too well for you given the billions of people who will tell you that you're full of crap.

The government robbed everything it owns from the folk it and it's like claiming that mafias should go uncontested because they say they own the land.

What if one fire department creates a monopoly on fire department services?

https://mises.org/library/myth-natural-monopoly

https://mises.org/library/fear-monopoly

Monopolies don't exist.

They do; they're called states

No they don't because we have nice anti-trust laws established to destroy monopolies. I don't get the impression that MGSB is in favor of these though.

https://mises.org/library/truth-about-sherman

Monopolies not always are created by the market, although influent, the market doesnt always create a monopoly. If there's a limited supply of diamonds and one company owns all the mines, I would love to see how the market can find a competitor.

Anti-trust laws are very needed to prevent such things that already happen in some degrees to become the rule. Plus non-private institutions are also needed to tell the truth when companies and the media have no interest in doing so.

Tobacco is a good example, imagine that today an ad told you that tobacco was good for health. You'd think it's absurd; but yet if a company like Philip Morris 70 years ago did an ad like that, you could think it's true. Then imagine CNN, FoxNews, MSNBC and idk which other crappy very watched News cable there is in the us all taked 5 million dollars each month not to talk about tobacco being bad for health. Soon you could have tons of people smoking tobacco cause it's good for health and in your dream ancap world most people wouldn't find about it.

Now that's just an example, it could be applied to tons of fields and companies. In a capitalist world companies need to do profit: media, oil, big pharma, tobacco, weapon, and other companies all work for profit and will never put their customers before their income. In such a world you need one institution that works (even if badly) for the people.

You can't have a good capitalist economy if all consumers are dumb and uninformed about the services/products they're acquiring.

"Monopolies don't exist."

Are you serious?


-trollmode on-

"If you think you can use guns to steal money from everyone in some arbitrary plot of land, you're an illegitimate tyrant who should be hung."

Civilised countries outlawed death penalty some time ago. Even many barbaric countries did this. For very good reasons.

-trollmode off-

Edited 9/2/2016 20:00:31

The government robbed everything it owns from the folk it and it's like claiming that mafias should go uncontested because they say they own the land.

It's not just that they say they own it, again it's that billions of people around the world agree that they own it. Most people don't recognize the legitimacy of the mafias claim.

Yes it is; I'm not giving it up to some damned feudal lord in Washington

It's not your property, and it never was. It is the land of the sovereign state that is your country, and frankly you have no right to use it if you refuse to follow the rules of it's owner.

If you think you can use guns to steal money from everyone in some arbitrary plot of land, you're an illegitimate tyrant who should be hung.

Except this is literally how it works. If you're going to declare that you are exempt from the rules of higher authorities, you have to be able to back it up and not just be talking trash. And if you are not strong enough to fight their enforceement of their rules, they have every right to declare that you will pay them for the privilege of of staying on their land.

https://mises.org/library/myth-natural-monopoly

https://mises.org/library/fear-monopoly

https://mises.org/library/truth-about-sherman

tl;dr Please.

Edited 9/2/2016 20:00:10

"Monopolies don't exist."

For start, monopoly of the legitimate use of physical force is known as one of the definitions of state since XV century.

Edited 9/2/2016 20:08:23