Disincentive to do it again, if you're the M'Hunters? Sure.

Disincentive to do it ever, if you're one of the 33 clans that didn't do it this season? Yep.

Disincentive for clans to ask for clarification in the future before just going and breaking rules? Certainly.


I really appreciate that the burden is apparently now on CL management for informing us of the rules. Makes things a lot more fun for the rest of us when we find something interesting.

Edited 7/26/2016 00:02:34

@gazpacho, sure it is, it's a defense in plenty of criminal trials. Murder relies on intent. If someone didn't intend to murder, it's not murder, it's (involuntary) manslaughter and the punishment is lessened.

@knyte, tlw -- as an example -- breaking the same rule at this point would probably "violate statutes of intent" for lack of a better phrase and would not fly by the committee. I don't quite see your point.

Edited 7/26/2016 00:05:43

I think a fair warning is the right call although Gazpacho has a fair point

ignorance of the law is no defence

you could argue that it's up to the clan to make sure they are up-to-date to the rules. Although I'm more upset that the improper conduct on the Division C thread was not mentioned that was inexcusable and goes against the good spirit that clan league should be played.

Anyways, Nobody wants to see other clans get punished and I'm happy to see no clan get punished for a first-time mistake =)

thats a bad example, and no ...ignorance is no defence, in real life or warlight...manslaughter isnt about knowing laws, it is about intentions and actions...if you can come up with an example where murder would be legally ok because of ignorance, id love to hear it.

Actually, "intent" under murder (and other criminal trials) refers to mens rea, which refers to the intention of committing that specific act- not the intention of breaking the law. If Bob knowingly kills Stacy and he's not criminally insane, it doesn't matter whether or not Bob knew that murder was illegal. I'm sorry, Bob, but I heard prison food's actually better than they say it is.

Although I'll try that the next time a cop pulls me over. "Whoops, didn't know that was illegal" has worked great in courts so far. :D


(I am, of course, dealing with common law jurisdictions here, since that's what I'm familiar with. Might work differently in your country.)

Edited 7/26/2016 00:06:43

i do not think there was intent to decieve, just a big breaking of rules which are not interested in intentions, but hey ho, im only a lowly division d drone so ideas above my station perhaps

i do not think there was intent to decieve, just a big breaking of rules which are not interested in intentions, but hey ho, im only a lowly division d drone so ideas above my station perhaps

Well, if you log in as your teammate and take his turns, that's not something you can do accidentally. Intent is kind of a given here.

Then again, you're right- this is Clan League. They don't have an intent plank for any of their rules.

Edited 7/26/2016 00:07:56

good point, bad example on intent.

Better example is in sentencing.

But this is not a tribunal here. This is a league ran by grown up and serious players who know what they want for their league to make it remain the best of all. They think and act as such, and naturally their decisions and actions look to be taken assuming CL participants are also grown up and serious players. The kind of players who would not go cry because a rule clarification has just happened and they missed the opportunity to abuse of it (abuse for those who perfectly know the rule, have played CL before, may have witness similar issues in the past, and so on).

Aren't you guys worth a bit more than that and could instead shine by accepting the genuine mistake (which moreover if im not mistaking has no impact on next season when I look at the standings) and above all, understand or at least respect the CL leaders decisions ? :-/

Ofc if you dont trust the CL leaders integrity (and reminder we're talking about guys like MotD, Beren, and so on!) then you dont have to honor their decisions, but then you may want to re consider your participation to this league. It would be ashamed to get to this point though.

Ah right. Bob sells dope, didn't know that it was against the law, gets to walk home- but the judge makes it clear that's not okay in the future. Seen that many a time in my local courthouse.

Gotcha.

@Mike: Again, I'm not challenging the ruling. It's final.

And lol no I'm not gonna drop out in the middle of the season and screw over the Wolves.

Edited 7/26/2016 01:25:15

No Child (or clam) Left Behind! Everyone passes!

Also, in before someone mentions the Hillary defense

Nah, I think the best one I've seen so far is:

Ref: ok you're fine, and your goal counts. But next time, offsides is illegal for everyone else

Don't think Hillary defense would top that.

So what happens if now someone takes a team mates turn to save a booting and it can't be proved he saw this post or knew anything about this ruling?

If this is passing through, in the next Clan League I am starting new clan, pretending I don't know the rules and play in all 18 tournaments from 6 different accounts.

I have 2 brothers and 5 cats in my house, and I play on any hour possible. You won't prove that I knew the rules and you won't prove it's all me. I will edit out this post, too.

Edited 7/26/2016 00:39:51

LOL

Also, did CL management look into the Aldehyde situation? After http://bit.ly/mh-cheating started going around, LTEmperor's flag swiched to Estonia to match his other teammate (it's documented in the link, near the bottom).

If that were intentional, and if the team's immediate reaction was to just switch the account they were cheating with, I don't quite understand how the "good faith"/"didn't know" defense would work here. If I were one of the Division C leaders affected by the ruling, I'd probably ask for a transparent* investigation of that side of the issue if one hasn't occurred already.

* I'm using "transparent" loosely here to refer to an investigation that the other Clan League Division C leaders are made aware of


Also posted this in the Div C thread, but here's the impact of the ruling:



Left column is the Div C situation right now, right is the situation if the minimum Rule 7 penalty had been assessed.


EDIT: And here's if they not only had the points deducted but the results reversed (i.e., the games counted as wins for their opponents)



Edited 7/26/2016 01:23:19

so, judging from the graphs, it appears that the even if the ruling had gone the other way, it wouldn't have significantly impacted who in the division promoted.

Edited 7/26/2016 02:14:57