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Cycle move order bug?: 10/29/2013 17:04:04


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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From Wiki:

"If the move order setting for a game is set to "Cycle", the move order works a bit differently. The first turn of a game is randomized just as it would be in the Random Move Order system presented above, but subsequent turns just cycle through that same order. For example: ABCD becomes BCDA for the next turn, followed by CDAB, and finally DABC before starting back at ABCD."

I am having a real hard time trying to see any pattern in this game:
http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=5022664

If the players are
A - Ineffable
B - ChrisCMU

C - malakkan
D - skandalo

Then the first three turns go
A, D, C, B
B, A, D, C
C, B, A, D

I noticed it was all jacked up on turn 8 when blue got first move on turn 7, and then both of them moved before us on turn 8 (we had spy card on so we could see all their moves). Turn 9 blue still moved before me, so he moved ahead of me 3 turns in a row. I don't see how this is possible.

Looking at it some more, it looks like it is using deployments as a 'move' in the order. Is this supposed to happen? It seems to me like it should only consider attack/transfers and not deployments in the cycle.
Cycle move order bug?: 10/29/2013 17:43:14


brisk • apex 
Level 58
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turn 7:
C B A D

turn 8:
D C B A

turn 9:
A D C B

blue is C and you are B. as you can see it is supposed to happen.
for the same reason ineffable moved before orange 3 turns in a row (1-2-3).

Edited 10/29/2013 17:44:46
Cycle move order bug?: 10/29/2013 17:45:16


{rp} General Mac 
Level 53
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Hi chris, I'm on my phone so can't see the game and am a little blind here.

Are you taking into account priorities and delays? This will cause Havock to the play cycle order. If they both moved before you two then thats definitely a priority card being used I.e the 3rd player gets bumped forward to first making the other team move 1st and second

Also you say blue moved before you 3 times in a row. This is expected in cycle. Look at your first 3 turn example. A moves before D all 3 turns.
Cycle move order bug?: 10/29/2013 18:12:31

Fizzer 
Level 58

Warzone Creator
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If the players are
A - Ineffable
B - ChrisCMU

C - malakkan
D - skandalo

Then the first three turns go
A, D, C, B
B, A, D, C
C, B, A, D

This all looks like the correct cycle. First ADCB, then the B-ADC (the B moved from the right to the left.) Then CBAD (the CB moved from the right to the left.)


For example: ABCD becomes BCDA for the next turn, followed by CDAB, and finally DABC before starting back at ABCD.
Turn 9 blue still moved before me, so he moved ahead of me 3 turns in a row. I don't see how this is possible.

Focus on two letters. Let's say, A and B. Given the way it cycles, A comes before B in 3 out of the 4 options (ABCD, CDAB, DABC) and comes after B in one (BCDA). So if A and B are fighting, A will move first 3 times in a row, then after B once. I agree it's not very fair, and I don't recommend using cyclic move order in team games for this reason.

Another way cyclic move order could have been implemented is to reverse the cycle each turn. For example, swap between ABCD and DCBA. This would ensure that if two players are fighting, they'll alternate first moves each turn. This has its own drawbacks, however, namely that the same players will always get first or last move, and other players will always get middle-moves. If this is something you want, you should create an entry for it on uservoice. I'm not sure if there's a better option than either of these - namely a predictable way to cycle that doesn't have any drawbacks.
Cycle move order bug?: 10/29/2013 18:14:45


[WM] Gnuffone 
Level 60
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Brisk already explain you perfectly.
Cycle move order bug?: 10/29/2013 18:17:36


[WM] Gnuffone 
Level 60
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And Fizzer now explain you again =).
For this i never used this setting on teamgames. Is not good as for 1v1.
Cycle move order bug?: 10/29/2013 18:23:34


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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Yeah, for some reason I always thought it would be reverse order in teams and that it had switched to this "moving left" manner. I guess reverse order has flaws too (two people would never get first move) as you said Fizzer. I definitely think this method is very unfair in team games (I will make sure to avoid that in the future) as getting out moved 3 turns in a row when going for kill is a huge pain).

The settings on this tournament are odd in general though (only cards are spy cards that you basically get every turn). This move order makes it even more odd.

Thanks guys!

Edited 10/29/2013 18:25:46
Cycle move order bug?: 10/29/2013 18:28:55


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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I just realized we might face brisk soon in that very tournament(they have to win a couple matchups first).
Cycle move order bug?: 11/6/2013 14:47:20


Perrin3088 
Level 44
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personally, I think that reversing order makes more sense than the way described here..
the problem with this, is as stated, many turns in a row a player will be at a disadvantage to another player.. if the order reversed every turn, then despite being always in middle/end of the cycle, you would never be behind the same player twice in a row...

Imagine a 12 player FFA, if you are chasing down a player, you'd want cyclic order to try and eliminate the fact of chasing them down and having them move first turn after turn.. but you could go up to 11 turns before you manage to go before them, making cyclic order actually less effective for the job *as I understand it* it was made for.
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