Oh boy , Europeans telling us the wonders of a strong government, like ethnic cleansing and a poorly working economy. We already have too much socialism in the US, enough is enough.

Europeans telling us the wonders of a strong government, like ethnic cleansing and a poorly working economy.

Dont know where you got that image. Probably not in this thread...

Can we all agree communism is impossible? Good.
Now, what would you use instead? The USSR system. It is the next best thing.
Thus, striving for communism results in that, yes? Ok.

The goal of socialism is communism.
Thus, socialism is striving for communism.
Thus, socialism will get closer and closer to the USSR system. Which is a disaster.
Thus, socialism is a disaster.

Transitive property FTW!

Now, what would you use instead? The USSR system. It is the next best thing.

no it is not! your following text is redundant. A dictatorship is the absolute opposite of communism.

Germany, Sweden, Yugoslavia, Poland, the Soviet Union, China, Czechoslovakia, and that's only the real reds. Imperialism, another way of death by government is even worse.

Your telling me the people who wanted communism didn't adopt Stalinism?
Go on. I enjoy learning alternate history

Imperator: Your suggestion is kind of dumb. you already said that it is practically impossible. It cant replace any political system under current circumstances.

It's pointless to compare capitalism in a flawed world to communism in a perfect world, which was more my point. And while Communism is impossible to achieve, Socialism is not.

What you are doing is saying that "Everything is better in communism because everything is perfect". While this is true, the same can be said for practically any ideology, including capitalism, Imperialism, Monarchism, you name it.

The simple fact is, these are not all good ideas just because they work out great in a perfect world. When you discuss these ideas in a real world context, you find that Imperialism results in horrible human rights abuses, and that communism results in a class system, lack of technological advancement, and just generally horribleness.

The reason that capitalism is better is that even in a real world context, it is an awesome system.

Edited 3/28/2016 17:46:20

Better dead than red

Communism is impossible without a transitionary phase of socialism, and it is almost guaranteed it would last long, with no guarantee of success. Governments have to be limited by the people, or freedom will be limited and atrocities are guarenteed, and the amount will be amplified by the strength of the country.

Real communism is cool, but the way to it is too much for it.

good point Major.

Real communism is cool, but the way to it is too much for it.

Its the way not the destination that counts.^^

Imperator. I dont want to replace capitalism with communism. I would rather like to have communistic concepts and ideas in mind to improve a political system. and in the danger of repeating myself: I believe a society should have more social than capitalistic aspects.

Edited 3/28/2016 18:03:35

A dictatorship is the absolute opposite of communism.

Yet every attempt at communism has resulted in dictatorship. Wonder why that is...

Learn from history or you're doomed to repeat it.

Imperator. I dont want to replace capitalism with communism. I would rather like to have communistic concepts and ideas in mind to improve a political system. and in the danger of repeating myself: I believe a society should have more social than capitalistic aspects.

Yes I know, you want to make broke european countries like Greece and Spain.

Small level communism, Soviet Democracy, is wonderful. Allows a town to be relatively self-sufficient and gives power to the town and individual. The problem with big government systems is that they would never let this go along, and they would make it collapse in on itself. Libertarian governments would have no problem with this, you as a town would be free to keep your production and have your own militia.

Soviet Democracy? Does this even exist?
I agree about small scales attempts, it could work better than in nation wide scales.
See Marinaleda, Spain, in impoverished Andalusia, this town used to suffer terrible hardships. Led by a charismatic mayor, the village declared itself a communist utopia and took farmland to provide for everyone. While 30% of the active population in Andalusia was without work, Marinaleda had full employment. Could it be the answer to modern capitalism's failings?

Yet every attempt at communism has resulted in dictatorship. Wonder why that is...

which attempt? you can call a fat pig a sexy, pink beauty, though it is still a fat pig! or if someone hits your face until it is red mush, he may call the procedure: lovely cuddle time although we both agree it rather is something totally different. I hope you finally got the point..

Yes I know, you want to make broke european countries like Greece and Spain.

pls dont play the trolling dumbass..

pls dont play the trolling dumbass..

I'm not, those are the real world effects of your "Social Democracy". Which, by the way, is the name of what you're describing, not "Socialism/Communism".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_(council)

Panda, actually know about something before you speak.

Posting a wiki link without explanations does not help your argumentation at all Major. Worse is to not even fully read it, Soviets were organized form of the dictatorship of the proletariat, and everyone wasn't allowed to participate in it (some classes were excluded), not something I would call a democracy, even if there were some attempts in the beginning but failed very quickly.

I obviously do not want to exclude people who live in such communities, and I don't want to live in a commune, but I'm advocating it as a option for the communists.

Communism's worked many times. Not the USSR (which was officially socialist) nor the CFR, but in small towns in India and Indonesia, that noo e's heard of, they're so irrelevant. However, communism on a bulk scale needs a much more altruistic society, and with conservatism and nationalism afoot, that won't happen (unless it's government-started, and it won't be). And the way to communism (extreme leftism) is an unstable one, and almost undeniably a bad one.

But capitalism and less government is achievable, and the way to it is less painful, though the end is less wonderful.