When I think about US involvement in other countries I like to think about the Monroe Doctorine... That handy document that told other countries to stay out of the Americas.. It shows how hypocritical America is.. We tell them to stay out so we should stay out of their countries

Modern Muslim extremism in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria is partially caused by the US.

If the US wasn't so hypocritical do you think that there would be as much extremism? Sure, there would be some but would there be as much?

There would be just as much extremism, it just wouldn't be directed against the West as much. Islam is by nature combative and violent; the West didn't do that to it.

Yeah. It'd just be about something else.

So pretty much, you can't refute me with facts/logic, so just yell and scream evil? I'd rather take an American bomb than get burned alive by ISIS for being a Christian.

Ok, I accept that scum like you are.

Maybe the Islamic extremists need to listen to your valid points and kill innocent folk in America, to disable the warmongerers and threat nu. 1 to world peace, maybe bring some of that beheading, and burning to, as Americans say, "stateside". Do you really think it is ethic for you to be gruesomely killed just since you know someone who went to fight in the Middle East once? Tell me in the afterlife your answer.

Except I'm pretty sure a) those numbers are wrong, and b) the active minority can overcome a silent majority. Just look at how much fuss LBGT people make, and they are only 4% of the population and far less bent on domination. Plus, your numbers don't take into effect incredibly high Muslims birthrates compared to European birthrates. Project the numbers over 2 generations, then talk to me.

a) 13 million Muslims, according to Pew Research. 13/508 (508 being total EU population) = 0.0256. You're right, I was wrong - it's lower than what I had. And if the whole population of Iraq and Syria (way bigger than who actually will/who actually wants to come) come to the EU, it will be raised to 13%, or about as much as Bulgaria's Muslim population. So even in a worst-case scenario so bad that it's impossible, it still will be about as Islamic as Bulgaria. b) That's total BS. LGBT do not dominate. Minorities don't dominate, unless they are only a little lower than majority.

Ok, is that why every majority Christian nation oppresses women, punishes people for burning the Bible, has honor killings, etc? Thought not

The Lord's Resistance Army, otherwise known as "What Christians like to not hear of/not talk about." And you know what? You could hardly tell apart a Christian and Islamic country in the 1600s. Cut off that person's hand for crime, yes. Stone folk, great. Kill Jews, oh, Christians only there. Beat your woman, oh, Christians only there again. Allow no faith freedom, oh, Christians only there. It's only through lowering faith that Christianity became how it is today, and discarding orders from the Bible, like killing whoever works on a Sunday. But in the meantime, the Turkish and Iranian polities were ganged up on by Christian powers, and always weak, and folk turned to their faith through the dynastic wars and invading countries, stunting the "atheism" that grew in Europe. And it got better, but then the European settlers came. Turks managed to get off ok, and Iranians mediocre, but everyone else was put in a settlement, and encouraged to make their own countries and be nationalist (in which they did).

Never said anything about Christianity, but anyway: want to judge how people from a religion should act? Look at the founder. Jesus Christ, or Muhammed? Both are the ideals people of the two religions look up to. Muhammed was a violent raiding warlord who married a girl and killed hundreds of people in his lifetime of military conquest. Jesus healed people and let himself be killed rather than fight back and resist. Furthermore, people do not take every word in the Bible as it is. Finally, I am judging on the actions of the adherents. Tell me more about those thousands of Christian fundamentalist suicide bombers, and those people just cranking out babies so they can install Old Testament law. Oh, wait... So don't give me this "Bible is worse than Quran shit".

Christ is also very respected in Islam (a truth you Islamophobes will be shocked to hear). Muhammad is best respected for transcribing the Quran, he's not meant to be a model. The grounds that it's thought of as very uncouth to draw him is so that folk wouldn't worship him instead of God. And if Christians did as faithfully as the Muslims did, well, that would be a far worse hell (Hitchslap actually had a good, albeit tactless post about it).

Looking at your (rather shady) numbers, I calculate there will be 35 million Muslims in Europe. At .1% are terrorists, that is 35000 terrorists.

0.1% is a very high estimate, though. 0.005% is more likely (5 for every 100,000). Furthermore, why would terrorists bother with all that, when they can just drive to Turkey and shoot every Christian or Red Kurd they see? Drive to Lebanon and the Syrian beach, and do the same thing. For politic retaliation, they can just take some rocket launchers and shoot some Iranian border towns, and invade Arabia through the unguarded desert.

And even those who do come to far west Europe, there's far more problems with letting murderers in from mid west Europe than terrorism.

LOL. The Islamic Caliphates that conquered North Africa, the Middle East, and parts of the Indian Subcontinent and then exercised forced conversions and unending bloodshed on people of other faiths was around long before America bud. You remember the Jizya? How about the burning of Hindu temples? Hmm guess not, since hose were all pre-1776.

I don't know why you're laughing at such a thing. Anyhow, polity =/ folk, as you seem to have this idea stuck in your head (and, by extension, that you need to be at a war crime court since you failed to stop America from invading all the countries in your lifetime).

All the primary justifications of Jihadist groups rely on actual scriptural references from the Quran. Yes they are misinterpreting them and amplifying their message with references to the "evil imperialism" of the west, but the sheer fact that the Quran can allow extremists to twist its words to justify burning people in cages, slicing throats off, and engaging in sexual trafficking of underage girls is proof enough that the root of muslim extremism is located within and not external.

You can twist words from anything. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzYXurzNoE4

Don't defend Muslim Extremists by pointing the finger at Western Nations. You can choose a side. You're either with ISIS and the people killing Coptic Christians and Islamic Minorities, or you're against them and you support any and all attempts to utterly destroy them.

To eliminate Islamic extremism, you must eliminate American government and friends.

When I think about US involvement in other countries I like to think about the Monroe Doctorine... That handy document that told other countries to stay out of the Americas.. It shows how hypocritical America is.. We tell them to stay out so we should stay out of their countries

Yeah, and even America can not fully handle the Americas - Guyanne Française where rockets are launched from, and loads of little islands still owned by European powers.

I can assure you there would still be Muslim extremists in Pakistan sending foreign fighters into India to kill border patrol agents and civilians and Hindus and priests.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akshardham_Temple_attack#Healing:_The_Aftermath_of_the_Attack

^This was in 2002.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Mumbai_attacks

^This was in 2008.

Yeah I remember...I was 10 years old and worried to death some crazy lunatic Islamic jihadists had killed my family while trying to convert the infidels of India.

Get over yourselves. Muslim extremism doesn't need the West or the USA to function. They always have a target. If not Christians then Jews. If not Jews than Hindus. If not Hindus than Buddhists.

by extension, that you need to be at a war crime court since you failed to stop America from invading all the countries in your lifetime

That's unequivocally false. Note that the Caliphate wasn't a political entity, but primarily a religious entity that existed in order to spread the faith of Islam to every corner of the globe. The mission of the US government in wars over the last several decades has not been to spread a religion. We can and should criticize the US for wars when they have no political or national security interest, however we can and should criticize people within Islam who spread the idea of the caliphate. In ancient Islamic times the polity was the people because they were united under a commonly shared value of: "we must spread Islam by force".

Edited 3/7/2016 02:04:53

"The Lord's Resistance Army"
New this would come up. A 500 man group, most of them impressed child soldiers, equate with Boko Haram, Al Qaeda, the Taliban, Al Shabab, ISIS, etc.

" (508 being total EU population"
I was using Europe, not EU. Got me confused.

"Christ is also very respected in Islam (a truth you Islamophobes will be shocked to hear)."
I knew that. Stop making generalizations.

"You could hardly tell apart a Christian and Islamic country in the 1600s. Cut off that person's hand for crime, yes. Stone folk, great. Kill Jews, oh, Christians only there. Beat your woman, oh, Christians only there again. Allow no faith freedom, oh, Christians only there. "
Yes, we should judge Christians on shit that happened in the 17th century. At least you didn't use the Crusades.

"And even those who do come to far west Europe, there's far more problems with letting murderers in from mid west Europe than terrorism."
Is that why Mafia members bombed Paris?

Stop your sob tales. Islamic extremism is impossible to eliminate 100%, as it is to eliminate Christian, Hindu, Buddhist extremism fully, but 90% of it is made from American shrapnel.

+ 1 Jai. People blame the West for radical Islam. How is the West responsible for violence in Southeast Asia?

"Stop your sob tales. Islamic extremism is impossible to eliminate 100%, as it is to eliminate Christian, Hindu, Buddhist extremism fully, but 90% of it is made from American shrapnel."
Wow, that is so wrong. Anyway, all you need to do to destroy Christian extremism is kill the 500 members of the LRA.

You people are such hypocrites. "I think these people are being intolerant of Islam, so I'm going to be intolerant and hateful of Christianity! That'll give me the moral high ground!"

Throwing gasoline on a fire does not extinguish flames, good lord.....

You could hardly tell apart a Christian and Islamic country in the 1600s.

This isn't the 1600s. It seems more and more that critics of Christianity have little argument other than to cite events which took place hundreds of years ago and are now mostly irrelevant as the people responsible and their cohorts are long since gone.

We have modern day examples of Islamic countries stoning gays, directly denying basic rights to women, and a host of other crimes. Show me examples of (MODERN) Christian countries who have an equivalent of Sharia Law.

What if I told you, the US created muslim extremism?

What if I told you, you need to retake your history classes?

Muslim extremism existed before the U.S, long before. It simply existed in a different form. This is like saying that Muslims are responsible for Christian extremism because they once invaded Spain and The Balkans way back.

New this would come up. A 500 man group, most of them impressed child soldiers, equate with Boko Haram, Al Qaeda, the Taliban, Al Shabab, ISIS, etc.

500, maybe today, now that they've mostly been hunted down. Hundreds of thousands at peak.

I knew that. Stop making generalizations.

I strongly doubt that.

Yes, we should judge Christians on shit that happened in the 17th century. At least you didn't use the Crusades.

My point there wasn't any historic bickering, it was that atheism and irreligion is what made modern Christianity bearable, not Christianity itself.

Is that why Mafia members bombed Paris?

And in the meantime, a silent 600 others were killed that year, of homicide. Where is their vigil?

Wow, that is so wrong. Anyway, all you need to do to destroy Christian extremism is kill the 500 members of the LRA.

Far easier said than done, and it's not just the LRA, but the Tripura rebels, Nagalim, and extremist Maronites in Lebanon, and more. And just think about it - what logic grounds would there be that Islam makes so many more extremists than other faiths, and just so happens to be the countries always targetted by America?

This isn't the 1600s. It seems more and more that critics of Christianity have little argument other than to cite events which took place hundreds of years ago and are now mostly irrelevant as the people responsible and their cohorts are long since gone.

Was using that to make a different point than what you said.

What if I told you, you need to retake your history classes?

Muslim extremism existed before the U.S, long before. It simply existed in a different form. This is like saying that Muslims are responsible for Christian extremism because they once invaded Spain and The Balkans way back.

To be frank, the Turks are a fair bit of why Serbs are as nationalist as they are, and why they hate Albanians and Kosovans so (and in reverse). But furthermore, what Christian extremism is there really in the Balkan and Spain, where they were invaded? And what extremism is in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Somalia where they have all been invaded?

Warlight is much more rightist than I recall, I can see why the communists started to get so offensive (not justifiably, but still). I come from Kazakhstan and I'm in Eritrea, two countries with a slight majority of Muslims, and frankly, I am not afraid of Muslims, even though there are big Islamic rebels in Eritrea funded by Ethiopia.

Edited 3/7/2016 02:16:57

"I strongly doubt that."
Thanks. Believe it or not, I am quite intelligent and well-read. Being anti-Islam doesn't make me an idiot

I bet there's a strong corelation.

thx :)

This isn't even a real debate at this point. It's just vitriol being thrown back and forth.

So how's about those Trump memes?