Also, Feline Juggernaut, what do you think of how I've named the bonuses now eg:
Egypt/Misr
Jordan/Al Urdun
Palestine/Filastin

Seriously, I don't think you need to do this. Just keep all the names English, it makes things generally easier and the names are shorter. You don't have to translate...

:3

Where's ISIS?

finally, testing is about to start. Can't wait!

I'm willing to test the map, it looks interesting!

Me! Me! Me!

i'll test

@OxTheAutist No I want this delusion to end. Learning how to properly transliterate Hebrew (actually 'Ivrit) and Arabic (actually Arabi) is the first step to understanding what's going on in the Middle East. I wish people know how to properly spell Yerushalayim and other cities. I believe certain Bible translators are the reason there are so many inaccurate transliterations.

No "Misr" is not less English than the Greek-influenced word, "Egypt". In fact I argue that "Misr" is what the country is actually called while "Egypt" is absurd..unless people in that country largely speak a language that refers to the land as "Egypt" or something similar. "Misr" is one of the legitimate transliterations into English.

Are you Żuktru's alt?

TESTING HAS FINALLY BEGUN!
It'd still be great if you kept signing up to test though, it'd be great to get enough players to test the diplo scenario and check that it is balanced.

Edited 6/16/2016 10:30:20

As it stands, the current map would have the nations ranked as so:
Iran - 261 TPT
Turkey - 207 TPT
Egypt - 161 TPT
Saudi Arabia - 132 TPT
Iraq - 94 TPT
Syria - 62 TPT
Yemen - 56 TPT
Oman - 49 TPT
Jordan - 34 TPT
UAE - 33 TPT
Israel - 27 TPT
Lebanon -17 TPT
Kuwait - 16 TPT
Cyprus - 16 TPT
Palestine - 14 TPT
Qatar - 12 TPT
Bahrain - 10 TPT

Okay there are multiple things you need to bare in mind while reading that list, first of all is that it is only of soverign nations controlling all of their soverign land at full power, so no rebels are accounted for in this distribution. So please no one say something like 'Iraq has rebels right now, they are in no way that high'.

Second thing you need to account for is that these TPT include a +5 from the settings.

Thirdly and finally, these are not finished, I know Iran is too powerful and that Saudi Arabia is too weak, it'd be great if you gave a rough estimate at where they should be rather than telling me it is wrong right now.


Second Scenario is the Current Situation scenario, as its stands these are the distribution TPT.

Iran - 261 TPT
Turkey - 207 TPT
Egypt - 161 TPT
Saudi Arabia - 132 TPT
Iraq - 56 TPT
Yemen - 56 TPT
Oman - 49 TPT
Daesh (ISIS) - 41 TPT
Jordan - 34 TPT
UAE - 33 TPT
PKK (Kurds) - 31 TPT
Israel - 27 TPT
Syrian Opposition - 24 TPT
Syria - 18 TPT
Lebanon -17 TPT
Kuwait - 16 TPT
Cyprus - 16 TPT
Palestine - 14 TPT
Qatar - 12 TPT
Bahrain - 10 TPT


Extra Info:

Kurdistan would have - 106 TPT
Northern Cyprus would have - 9 TPT

Israel getting 207 will not be able to happen, that is something for gamemakers to change by overriding the bonuses, but giving each Israeli territory over 40 Bonuses will not be beneficial.

Just make it a ton of neutrals then. ;)

I got an idea about Israel, maybe you can try putting Tel Aviv and/or Jerusalem city map to compensate Israel's lack of territories? Something like Berlin in this map: https://www.warlight.net/SinglePlayer?PreviewMap=48065

You can also do the same with Istanbul,Ankara,Cairo,Tehran etc...

I know it's a tad late to suggest this given we are already doing the tests, but I'll put this up here anyway.

I kind of agree.
Although Israel is pretty small, it's a very strong and powerful country compared to some of their neighbors.

i wanna test

I've got nothing against Israel or any other country in the region for that matter, but there are multiple reasons why it has to be as powerful as it is.
-First of all, most scenario makers will alter the map bonuses to suit the game which is 100% great but I have to keep the bonuses more or less around the same region 1-9 so as a person could start game without altering anything and still get a fun game
-The fact is, Israel is small and I quite literally cannot fit anymore territories into the region which is what gives way to this underpowered Israel, but frankly I can't just enlarge Israel and leave the rest of the map unchanged.
-A city of Tel Aviv or Jerusalem would lead to an Israel centred map which is not what this map is, this map is of the Middle East as a whole, adding one city map to balance Israel would lead to all games on this map being focused on wars with Israel rather than the whole region (One could argue that it might be realistic for wars against Israel to occur, but I would argue that such wars against Israel are of the past, and in the modern day, the biggest situation is in Syria and Iraq)

well first to get this out of point, no matter what you do - Israel will ALWAYS be targeted and one of the main focus of diplo games as there'll be 3 outcomes;

1)Israel gets artifically powered by having ~20 income per territory from scenario, making their lands very valuable and prone to gangbanging.
2)Nothing gets changed; the game starts and Israel, not making any big impact to game, either gets blobbed/puppeted by Egypt/Saudis or gangbanged because of RP, as realistically none of Israel's immediate neighbours love them.
3)Israel gets a city map to compensate, this keeps their lands in the same income but gives them artifically a lot of territories outside of the map, makes them lesser prone to gangbanging while still keeping them a main power without overridden bonuses.

Second, while you are right about giving *only* Israel a city map makes the map a lot of Israel-centric(which I can argue that Middle East *is* Israel-centric, even with ISIS stuff, but won't debate), you *DO NOT* have to only make one city; one problem of this map is that it has A LOT OF unused lands that could be otherwise put to use for things like this.

Let me demonstrate. I artifically moved the state/religion bonuses from Sudan area to Central Asia/Caucaus with my so-great paint skillz to open space and this is the result:

http://i.imgur.com/bhEiDBQ.png

(...and yeah I know my orders can be seen in the map, don't care.)

See? That emptiness is about the size of Egypt plus Jordan, Palestine & Israel; that's roughly 100 territories. What's better is that Egypt & Jordan has a lot of large territories, if you make all territories the size of Israel ones you could get close to 200 territories.

Assuming roughly 40 territories is enough for each city(some can have more detail while some don't), this means you'll be able to put 2 cities at worst and 5 cities if you work for it, which is enough to include all major powers' capitals(Ankara,Cairo,Tel Aviv,Riyadh,Teheran) or some disputed/important cities(Nicosia,Jerusalem,Mecca,Istanbul etc.)

Now you may not like the idea of having city maps on the map or simply don't want to spend further time on this map as it's close to release, I can't blame you if you want to rush this; it's a tiresome job and it's your map after all, you are free to do whatever you want with it, I'm just offering suggestions to make this map even better and get the best quality out of it. So far, people seem to be interested in giving Israel realistic power without making it have 20 income per territory and the map has a lot of free space that could be put to better use, so this is the best way that can be gone I presume.

Anyway too much writing for one day, G'day.



EDIT: typos

Edited 6/23/2016 19:24:02

Tabby, I understand why you would do this and I would do the same honestly (Sadly I'm not a high enough level to make scenarios) but I would much rather play a game with Israel on par with Iran, Turkey and Egypt because that is realistic, I'm just talking about the published version of the map which has to have more or less balanced bonuses for nations based on territory amount. You've all suggested some great things and I'm thankful that you care about this map.

Stewie, I understand all your saying which is why I believe that Israels' bonuses should be overridden in a game by the creator, but for publishing versions, the map has to have territories around about the same bonus level. Now as for your city plan, thank you for taking the time to think about it rather than just saying it with no reasoning like some people do over Mail, it's nice to see people taking the time to help this map get better, I'll leave it up to all of you to decide whether to have city maps or not, we have had this vote before and it ended with a no but that was quite early on in this thread and perhaps now we might get more people suggesting whether or not to have city maps, either way I'm happy although I do reserve the right to say no if I don't like how it works.

Thanks everyone

General Amoora,

Me too...it would balance well. You could give some of it to Palestine too ofc

well, first phase test gone alright I suppose.

so, when's the second phase? or you'll just release it immediately? I wouldn't mind having this map go public at it's current state, although there's always room for improvement.