There's a bunch of Conservatives, Traditionalists and one socialist running for president of a far away land with lots of power.

shyb pretty much summed up the why i somehow agreed with Eklipse, wich is that Democrats overall aren't really rooting for the middle class.

The only idea comming from Trump that isn't crazy in my opinion is when he call out the candidates for being bought by big corporations through their superpac. Howerver, he never told us how he was going to fix this problem, and of course the media turn a blind eye to this issue because they have a lot to lose if candidate aren't funded by billionairs.
If i recall correctly, it was Trump who said that the wages are already too high as it is.(he didn't say that he would lower it though)

I can't really have a constructive opinion on Obamacare since i don't know enough about it, and i don't live in the US, however i do think that health care should be a right for every citizen, and it should be organized through a social program, not deregulated private companies who can speculate on the healh of people. (like pharmaceutical companies do)

This debate was really boring, the candidates kept repeating the same thing, and the moderators were too afraid to call them out on their bullshit because they didn't want to be bullied like in the last debate.
The whole debate can be summerized like this:

1) Cut taxes, cut taxes, cut taxes
2) Deregulate everything, let the free market do whatever it wants to do, fire all governement agencies that are in the way
3) Let the private sector handle health care, and raise the retirement age
4) Lets spend another trillion dollar on the military, having a defense budget higher than the 10 following countries combine is not enough to be taken seriously.
5) Obama is trash

In my opinion, Rand Paul won the debate, he was the more in touch with reality, he called out Trump on his ignorance of the TPP, and Rubio on military spending. But i don't think this is going to do him any good with the republican base. And saying that the earth is 4.5 Billion years old is certainly not going to help him among the republican voters.

Edited 11/11/2015 17:56:02

the argument that trump is not beholden to corporations is a bit facetious since he is a billionaire businessman. he is not being bought by big business because he IS big business. he is an example of corruption getting so out of hand that the corrupt no longer have to operate behind the scenes. its easy to cut out the middle man (politicians) when you have a billionaire who is already a household name, and a voting public who have already been effectively tricked into voting against their interests.

the reason trump has not put forward a plan to get money out of politics is because he would get skewered for his past political contributions (he did donate to hillary clinton), and he still wants to be able to donate to (buy) candidates if he doesn't win. and if he does win, he is unlikely to do anything about it as president since he probably wants to influence elections long after he stops being president.

i really think dems are more on the side of the working class though. not anywhere near enough to get my full support, but more than republicans. i have worked union and non-union jobs at different places, mostly in the unskilled service industry, and from my experience, if businesses could get away with it they would readily employ slave labor and charge even more for their products. unions help prevent companies from abusing their employees (again, not enough to get my full support, but it's better than nothing)

This is the area where I actually agree with the Democrats. We need to expand Labor Unions if anything, and stomp out this Right to Work nonsense (Fortunately it failed in Missouri, thank you Jay Nixon).

To be honest, I'd love to see the United States move closer to Socialism. Perhaps we should adopt something similar to the Nordic Model for our economic policies.

I'm usually on the Democrat side when it comes to economic issues, but I can't stand many of their stances on social issues. (Reverse that statement for my thoughts on the Republicans)

he called out Trump on his ignorance of the TPP

Trump got the details screwed up, but he's not wrong in saying the TPP is trash. Bernie Sanders as well has stated fierce opposition to TPP. When you have Trump and Sanders agreeing on something it's a pretty big sign....

social issues are messy af. it's really difficult to have intelligent dispassionate debates about them, and nearly impossible to convert people through logic and reason. as i get older i'm finding that i get more tangled up on social issues and more clear headed about economic and political issues. all i can ever say to people that makes any sense is to use critical thinking as much as possible while still following your heart and don't believe everything you read (but keep reading and read about all viewpoints). it's one thing to have a difference in opinion, but to have an opinion based on ignorance is a bigger problem that can and should be solved. (not saying im perfect in this regard, but i at least try to combat my own ignorance, and that's the best anyone can do)

I'll stop the argument. Rand Paul won. Vote Paul or vote 3rd party or write in yourself...do not vote Sanders, Clinton, Bush, Rubio, Cruz, Trump, or Carson.


also "debat" isn't a word.

Edited 11/11/2015 19:32:27

Sanders, Rubio, and Carson aren't that bad.

To rebulican voters / right-wingers: what's your take on this video?

Republicans Put Minimum Wage Workers In Their Place
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKA4gRHLnaE