@ollie oh i didn't know, sorry

yeah it's a great template, one of the best 2v2 IMO

china map sucks

China 1v1 is decent, but China 2v2 is very good.

And your kind of thinking is why 20 is boring. Dismissed 3 really fun templates because they don't fit your taste or play style.

The Strat 1v1 on ME with WR regularly doesn't have dominant picks, but that's no argument for saying that it is not a strategic template. I don't see how failing to have dominant picks is an argument against a template being strategic - it just means you have to win with gameplay, rather than picks, which is a good thing in my opinion.


+1. You say you need dominant picks, and I think you've just been playing too much Europe. You don't always need an islands for a strategic template. There are other ways to win a game than just out-picking and delaying opponents.




I don't find these templates you mentioned interesting. Who deemed them strategic? Final earth 2v2 with 4 picks still has no dominant picks often. I think maybe with two recon cards to start the game, it may become less about guesses and more about skill, but if it's the same as the ladder settings with the only change being four picks per player, I don't think it is a good idea for high level players.

Final earth with SR seems strategic even with just 2 picks, but 4 picks would make for a very interesting template. I think you should ask for more opinions(from players who have played the template extensively) and not brush off templates you're not familiar with as "not a good idea for high level players"

Lolowut, I believe you have some decent points but you bring them forward very poorly. Based on your logic, the duel map is never used by top players. Perhaps we should consider using it in [20] since it is new and unused? I agree with using new templates, but using templates that are boring or very easy to understand are not a good idea.

Now to say I wouldn't pick templates based on my taste or play style is completely off. I won't even be the only one deciding on templates. China 2v2 does not fit my style well, but I would still be willing to use it for an event because I believe it is interesting and requires a different style than many competitive templates.

Rise of Rome is a map that I find very easy to understand, and incredibly boring. My first game on it with alts was against a team of players who I later found out were considered "good" on Rise of Rome, and I beat them without much trouble. I picture that if Rise of Rome were used in [20A], everybody's picks would be identical every game. The games would also last a very long time, which is a major problem considering people already consider it going too long. Maybe with altering some settings, Rise of Rome can become more strategic. But it is still too big to be used in a competitive event.

I like the second half of your post, Master of the Dead. One issue with Final Earth 2v2 is that very few top players have ever played it. Maybe there is a reason for that though? Maybe the top players realized it was not going to be a great template? I will look more into this map though.

I have already made a thread with about eight of the top players on warlight and will see what they want out of this event.

Me personally, I would enjoy completely new settings that have not even been made yet, on a random map that is of average size. I think this is not how most top players think though.

Rise of rome and final earth are boring. You should play some on great lakes and see if you like it

Chris please :P
stop your autopromotion, your map as strategic value isn't great :P

One issue with Final Earth 2v2 is that very few top players have ever played it. Maybe there is a reason for that though? Maybe the top players realized it was not going to be a great template?

Just perfect! Seems like a very logical way to judge how a strategic a template is(avoid playing it!). I wish you well in your quest.


Me personally, I would enjoy completely new settings that have not even been made yet, on a random map that is of average size. I think this is not how most top players think though.

Then in my honest opinion it is time they stopped calling themselves "top players". A top player should adapt to a variety of templates. Get out of their comfort zone and be tested. After that if you feel a template is repetitive/boring I can understand that.


@Chris
Please provide a link to a game and I'll try it out.

A top player should adapt to a variety of templates. Get out of their comfort zone and be tested. After that if you feel a template is repetitive/boring I can understand that.

I know exactly how a template plays out by looking at it, no need to play.

you must be kidding

i don't think the 1vs1 atlantis is very strategic. a template with no luck Needs at least Cards or games on it become very static. i made my own template on atlantis. 4*5 picks, Standard Cards, not no luck cycle. still not sure if the bonuses (+3 for 4 terretories and +1 for 3 terretories only) are good for a strategic template

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=9571275

Lolowut, I believe you have some decent points but you bring them forward very poorly. Based on your logic, the duel map is never used by top players. Perhaps we should consider using it in [20] since it is new and unused? I agree with using new templates, but using templates that are boring or very easy to understand are not a good idea.

Right, so based on my logic, I'm making duel a conclusion? Sounds like a fallacy.

I'm not saying we use an untested template, but there's definitely templates out there that have been deemed strategic and are new that we can use.

Idk if I'm the only one burned out on the same old, but I'd like to see the league go back to what the purpose was, to diversify how we think and bring us together with interesting/new players.

I'm saying we steer clear of the templates that everyone devotes most of their time on, and pick templates that are newer/different styles in order to diversify everything. You mentioned your experience in one game using alts on RoR 3v3, in which you didn't name your opponents, and that's your basis on how a template plays? You're the one who's not making any sense. You're saying you're open to playing new, untested templates, but then denying that any of the new templates mentioned are worth playing for the league. You're even saying that you don't think it would go over with the participants. Let THEM talk moron. You have plenty of them talking here on the thread. You have some that dropped out of the league because of the status quo, but suddenly their opinion doesn't matter?

Pretty sure you need a Pepto Bismal for all the verbal diarrhea you just spewed.

Lolowut:

Read what I said again. I have already wrote to the best players to let them decide what they want. I will write to a few more soon. Your opinion on templates is not needed, nor wanted. Leave the template picking up to the good players.

I see you have nine tournament wins on your profile. Two of them are 1v1's where the best player you face is Heyheuhei. Seven of them are 2v2 where your teammates lead you to victory. Let's see you win something by yourself or with a teammate who is at or below your level. Let's look at your ladder stats. 12th place is your best on the 1v1 ladder. You are playing the NoobSchool account right now, and have managed to crack the top 10 during a weak time in the ladder with a near minimum number of games. You have never taken #1 on the 2v2 ladder despite playing with a lot of players who are substantially better than you.

The truth is, you have played more with very good players than most, yet you still are a large step down from them. Shut up about strategy until you can start competing on a decent level. You act like you are some great strategic player, and while the forum noobs may buy it, no one good does. You think you are really a great player? Then play with an alt or someone worse than you and show us. The truth is, you can't because you aren't great.

Master of the Dead:
Your points make sense. However, I think that most top players would still dominate on brand new templates. Skill in warlight is directly related to intelligence (there is also other factors of course) and I believe if you are a top player at a difficult template, you can learn to be a top player on any that are less complex than that template. I think it would be cool to see how quickly certain top players do adjust to other templates though. I will make a game with you and we can test various templates out if you wish. I also believe a change from the current templates is needed.

Edited 10/16/2015 20:00:56

JSA is right, not everyone can be me.

Why so much hate against Ursa:Luna? :(
Was fun to play that one!

one thing is fun, another thing is strategic.

Eu 3v3 AD 1600 is very fun to play, but not much strategic for example

So attack me instead of my points, it just proves you don't know how to argue them without lying out of your ass. I don't give a single shit what you think of my playing, or me personally. You asked for opinions, I gave you mine, you proceeded to say: Oh that's a valid point, it'll be under consideration, then turned around and talked about how none of the templates would work. Then you made a strawman argument using duel map lol. Have fun being full of shit. :)

I suppose you calling me moron is being friendly? Or perhaps calling my responses shit was nice? My point on your play is because I believe you have no idea what a good template is.

I said your point is valid about how new templates need to be used. I said that the templates you suggested were not good options. Just because I said your templates weren't good doesn't mean that I don't like your point about using new templates. You seem to have misunderstood my original response to you.

Edited 10/16/2015 20:50:28

It's equally degrading to have your opinion completely strawmanned by saying my logic concludes Duel should be used. If you're going to absolutely sidestep my argument to attack me personally, don't be surprised if I beat the hell out of your argument and attack you at the same time. Yeah, you're right, I have no idea what a good template is, despite playing this game for years, and having other people in the thread agree with me that you deem as good players yourself. Just because you believe me to be bad, and like to constantly talk about how bad I am doesn't suddenly make it true. I don't need your belief in my playing skills to play well.