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Warlight eSport Association (WeSA): 9/13/2013 13:41:48

Level 55
The Warlight is a magnificent game!
We can play funny games with our friends with many different settings and rules.
We can play with unknown players and getting friends.
We can enjoy the new point system like a roleplay, getting higher and higher level, more and more achievements, unlocking functions, etc.

However, the Warlight is a superb competitive game as well!
But I think, this competitive aspect could be much much better.

I mean, at present, there are a lot of possibilities for the competitive players: they can take part in many tournaments, even in many gorgeous tournament series (like [20], Promotion/Relegation leagues, VSOW series, Clan leagues, Champions leagues, etc.) and of course in the official Ladders, but I think none of these are perfect :(

One of the biggest problem with them the missing publicity and the unavailable history of them (the only possible way try to find any league history is in the totally spammed forum if the sought topic hasn’t been archived yet...). Of course the situation of the Ladders much better, but still unfavorable, for example you can check the profiles (if that info not hided), but compared it with a Hall of Fame section... well full another class. For example I am new in Warlight, I heard about some names of Legends, but e.g. I really don’t know who the Impaller was, or I am sure I didn’t heard about the most of Legends’ name yet.

The other big problem (for me) the missing common system. I mean there are many ’local champions’, and browsing the results of different tourneys/series/ladders everybody could have an idea about what players are goods, really goods or the best. Everybody has a Hero :) But this is absolutely not objective and a lot of time spent to get info! Or there is the Master race concept, if I know well this is the group of players who reach the 1st position of the ladder. It is a great performance of course, but not enough objective neither.
And so on.

So the competitive aspect could be much better.
This is why I open this topic. I would like that the like-minded players create an association. There would be more goals of this associations.

1. If we join our forces perhaps we can more motivate Fizzer to develop this part of Warlight (for example via uservoice votes). Furthermore we can help him with our advices, ideas.

2. Or we can create a common competitive system for ourselves (and if Fizzer likes it, he can implement).

I hope there will be player(s) who will manage this association.
I mean I don’t have enough time for my games neither, so I won’t be able do that :(
But I am the first players who joined to this association :)
And of course I can share my ideas too :)

I can’t stop the writing, so I share now those :D (just in bulk)

Well, I think creating a common competitive system is an easy job.
Because we can use a professional one, which is used for the chess.

I mean not only the chess ELO system, but e.g. the World Championship cycle and a lot of other things from that system as well. The chess and the Warlight are very similar!

For example, in the chess you can play white or black, this is why in the small rr chess tourney the chess masters play two matches eachother (white is in advance).
Many Warlight players hate that the most tourneys use the 1v1 strat templates only. So what about if we create a common pool of the strategical (means balanced, playable and not idiotic settings) templates where from the players can choose one when they ’play as white’, and later when their opponents ’play white and they are black’ they played that templates which choosed by their opponent.

But the two most exciting things is the applying of the common ELO system and the World Championship Cycle.

Ok, I see that ELO systems are inflated, but this is not big problem in chess then why should be problem in Warlight? I mean we should use ELO system exactly the same way like in chess, I mean the monthly changed ELO ranking list. Hey, if Fizzer would create this type of monthly ELO ranking lists from the beginning that would be very interesting! We (newcomers) can see how the Legends were good. But only Fizzer has access to the databases, so only he can do that, so I stop the daydream :)

I continue with World Championship Cycle rather. In the chess there is a World Champion aka the defender and there is the challenger. They play best of 12 games for deciding the title. But before it, there is a serious candidates tourney, which decided who will be the one challenger. And before it, there is a system which decided who will be the 8 candidates (you can read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candidates_Tournament).

We should create similar system. The best of 12 title match, and the candidates round robin tourney seems simple. But how should we decided who will be the candidates? Maybe the reigning champions of the big tourney series? Plus ladder top X player.

Or we can organize geographical championships, I mean national championships where the TOP X player promote to the Zone championship (European, American, Asian or something similar), and the TOP X player of Zones will promote the world championship.
It seems unusable (because too long) but despite this, I think these championships would be very interesting (namely decided not only the World Champion title, but European, American, Asian plus different country champion titles as well). For this purpose, when a player join to this association he need give us his country as well (after we can create the Zones and examine there are enough players for the different national championships, Zones etc.)

Btw, this association will be prosperous only that case if most of the good players will join. It is very important, because without that it won’t be quite legitimate :(
And important that we should filter the alt accounts as well!

OMG, I recognized that I wrote a novel...
Sorry for that, and sorry for my poor English as well :(
Despite these, I hope the most players will like this idea (WeSA) and will join and finally will be formed a very good competitive system.
And if my proposals are stupidities just ignore them, but please be constructive and correct or replace them with yours.
Warlight eSport Association (WeSA): 9/13/2013 13:55:32

Level 55
It's a good thoughtful post and there is no problem with your English.

If you're not willing to do it though I do worry who will it's a mammoth task which you ask a person to take on.

The ladders do currently use ELO to rank. And If you're having 'black' and 'white' it makes it very difficult to run a round robin as a seperate tournament will be needed for each template. This is the reason the champions league tournament will be organized over the forums and not with round robins etc. If you also use the forums you will suffer the same totally spammed forum you mentioned you'd like to avoid.

Possibly you should look into CLOTs these I think will offer some of the competitions on other maps which you want to see using the ladder format.

That said don't let me discourage you. It would be very interesting to see your vision in action.

Edited 9/13/2013 13:58:41
Warlight eSport Association (WeSA): 9/14/2013 04:51:10

Level 55
I hope Fizzer will be the one person who will do that :) Even a new members only feature in Warlight. In this case I am sure I will buy a membership, although shouldn't do that because Warlight is "wasted time", but my ego is very strong child and need playground for him :)

I mean, if there will be many OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIPS (like World Championship Cycle, European, American, Asian etc. Championships, national championships, invitational tourney for the best players (like Grand Prix tourneys in the chess), swiss tpye tourneys, etc.) and a very very similar (same :) ) ELO RANKING SYSTEM LIKE IN THE CHESS (I mean monthly based, continiously) I am the first who buy it :)

And you are right, the Ladders currently use ELO rank system, but totally different ELO ranking method than in the chess. I don't say it is bad. Even it is a brilliant idea! But Ladders is not really ranking, but a very good continuously operating, neverending championship. A special type of tourney where you can join or leave whenever. So it is a very good idea but inappropriate for a (common) ranking system, I think.

And Fizzer can develop the 'black and white idea' as well, and I don't think so it should be so difficult. In the round robin tourneys would be 2 matches with everybody, one 'white' and one 'black', and the first step would be the 'white' player choose a template from the official template pool. That's all. Swiss type tourney (if Fizzer develop that type) is simple as well. Only problem with elimination type tourneys, but somebody can find a solution for those as well, I am sure :P

So I hope so Fizzer will the person who will make those idea :)
Only if he won't, I hope we, the competitive players will make a brilliant system to ourselves. Not only one person, but the whole 'competitive community', and first step to collect them, for example into WeSA. Second step could be a simple World Championship Double-Elimination tourney, and after it we will have the first WeSA World Champion in a simple way :). After that we will have time to invent the difficult things, like ELO ranking system, World Championship cycle, other official WeSA championships (like European, American, Asian, national championships) and so on.

But first of all, as I mentioned we should be gathered.
But till now we are only two of us (accurately I am the only member of WeSA, because I can't decide reading your post that you want to join or no :) )

P.S.: I never heard about CLOTs, what are these? :)
Warlight eSport Association (WeSA): 9/14/2013 06:40:52

Ⓖ. Ⓐrun 
Level 57
I'm happy to help. I can't help with CLOT codes or anything but if you need a 'grunt' member to make some tournaments I'm happy to do that.
Warlight eSport Association (WeSA): 9/14/2013 07:55:48

Level 55
Thank you Arun for your help!
Because I know you same competitive player like me (you are in every series) I suppose you joined to WeSA too, so +1 member. So we have already 3 (or 2?) members :)
Warlight eSport Association (WeSA): 9/14/2013 09:43:18

Level 60
Sounds great! :D Ladders are indeed not competive compaired to what other sites have. (since the laddes are not only for members anymore, please make this member-only :\)
Warlight eSport Association (WeSA): 9/14/2013 09:46:14

Level 60
you should really look into the CLOT system :)

Edited 9/14/2013 09:47:09
Warlight eSport Association (WeSA): 9/14/2013 19:42:59

Level 31
i will ive thoughts if you want... not sure if i ill be much help though
Warlight eSport Association (WeSA): 9/15/2013 06:54:39

Level 55
If Fizzer will make this system then totally okey for me if it will be a member-only feature.
But if the communitiy will make, it would be very crazy the member-only criterion, I think.

Thank you for your support!

Thanks for the link, I checked the CLOT system.
It sounds good that have the chance for any programmer to create own Warlight ladder or special tourneys.
And I read Qi's rotating templates request as well ('white and black' is similar).

But the main purpose of this topic not those things!
There is a misunderstanding, I think.
If we 'simple' create a new CLOT ladder with rotating templates, that would be cool but would be 'only' a new one among the other good opportunities to compete, that shouldn't be the goal.

I mean the essence of the purpose of this topic should be the COMMON and INTEGRATED words.

So I don't want that we only create a new tournament series, called World Championship Cycle or whatever, no.
I would like if we create a COMMON framework both for the existing series and for the new ones in the future. At present exist many good but SEPARATED series. We should change this situation to 'many good and INTEGRATED series'. Sorry for my poor English, but I hope now understandable what I like.

And I gave only a proposal when I wrote about the chess systems ('real' ELO rankings and World Championship Cycle). This is not the only possibility! Just one of them. I think the simpliest and the best way, but anybody can propose other ways.

But I think in this phase not important yet neither the exact methods (e.g. we use CLOT scripts or a simple google docs spreadsheet for ELO rankings) nor e.g. how should we create the World Championship Cycle

The very first step should be to check the competitive communities (I mean those Warlight players who don't play only for fun, but adore the rivarlies) whether would like this COMMON and INTEGRATED system or ok for them the present good but separated systems.

If the communities don't need this new system, then the whole WeSA is pointless, so we can finish the topic :)

So I would like to kindly ask everyone that give a vote here:

- If you want a COMMON and INTEGRATED system for races write here:
'+1 from <HOME COUNTRY>'
(home countries need later, if we will create the different zone and national championships)

- If you think this is not necessary and totally all right the present separated situation write here minimum a:

Of course you can write here your opinions, ideas and proposals too, but please write at least a '+1' or '-1' to know need WeSA or not.

Edited 9/15/2013 06:58:46
Warlight eSport Association (WeSA): 9/15/2013 06:56:33

Level 55
+1 from Hungary :)
Warlight eSport Association (WeSA): 9/15/2013 07:58:22

Level 43
geographical championships sux but good that i'm from Burkina Faso.
Warlight eSport Association (WeSA): 9/15/2013 08:25:57

Ⓖ. Ⓐrun 
Level 57
+1 from Wales.
Warlight eSport Association (WeSA): 9/15/2013 10:07:54

Level 60
Ekstone: all i'm saying is that you can use CLOT to build that kind of community, tracking all results and status of those stuff you mentioned (legends, legacy, many different official tournaments). If people provide links to their official tournaments you can use clot to grab the info and build stats with links. So you build your association community into a portal website that brings some structure to the warlight chaotic pool of different tournaments. Without having to rely on Fizzer to implement ideas soon. You'd still need a committed programmer though.
Warlight eSport Association (WeSA): 9/16/2013 16:18:47

Level 55
Good for you, because not likely that you will have a strong rival for African champion title and even if you don't like it, still you can choose to join to an other Zone (where there are more strong opponents), like Australia in football qualification.
But the geographical championship just a proposal for the future (and I am not sure that is a good one), it is not important yet.
The important thing that you like the idea of WeSA or not? +1 or -1? :P

Thx to show that my English is understandable :)

Ok, I see, the CLOT is the second-more professional solution (the first one if Fizzer implement it). But it would be functional too if we use only e.g. google docs spreadsheets. Perhaps in forum topics as well. Of course CLOT solution or Fizzer developing would be much much better.

But still the question is the community need this or not?

Or would be an other way, if committed player(s) (or programmer(s) if CLOT used) implement the chess system (at least the mounthly ELO ranking system, used the results of the exist series) or something other COMMON and INTEGRATED solution, and we will see that later the community will use it (or no...).

ps, will you be that committed programmer? :)
(I saw in the CLOT forum, you are a programmer).
Or anybody will implement the chess system or other COMMON and INTEGRATED system?

I am not a programmer and I don't have any time for spreedsheet version neither :(
But I am a very fanatic WeSA member, who very want to compete in a new COMMON and INTEGRATED system :)

So I am waiting for the champion of order who kills (integrates :) ) the many-headed chaos monster of the present warlight series :)
Warlight eSport Association (WeSA): 9/16/2013 17:54:50

Level 41
+1 from germany
Warlight eSport Association (WeSA): 9/16/2013 18:11:19

Level 60
not enough free time to commit to anything else, sorry.
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