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gui: 9/16/2015 09:05:31


Pink 
Level 60
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just looking at his record and its obvious he desserves the 1st place he will get. The question is how good will his rating be.

Some of his game are quite impressive as he tends to be able to win with lower incomes.

anyone would like to share their analysis of his games, i would certainly benefit a lot from it
gui: 9/16/2015 14:32:32

JSA 
Level 59
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I'll take a crack at it later. I haven't really had the experience of watching him play, so it should be entertaining for me, and hopefully informative for others.
gui: 9/16/2015 17:27:11


Strategos
Level 54
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Mayweather style.
gui: 9/16/2015 19:08:14


professor dead piggy 
Level 59
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Yeah, pretty sure he is angry bisrds so hes already no1.

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=9353259 the chat on this game might interest you.
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=9396312 As far as I can tell this is gui vs gui so any analysis is kind of simulacrous.
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=9355103 summer went the wrong way, she had a pretty awkward expansion as it was so gg.
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=9381278 gui says in the chat that he wanted to have mod run around after getting the ftb and 'chase shadows' which is exactly what happened. mod didnt surrender too early i dont think but i imagine everyone else will say he did.

Obviously on good form and back with a new(ish) passive style. Surely will end up at no1.

Edited 9/16/2015 19:27:22
gui: 9/16/2015 19:55:11


master of desaster 
Level 65
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i like it how he choses slower, but midterm higher income in games. his games are great to watch!
gui: 9/17/2015 00:03:23


Strategos
Level 54
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Actually, my game against the pig is gui vs gui too. I like to talk to myself and present hypothetical strategic situations. My hidden deployment against myself in West Africa made me think that I had 12 income from Scand and a Russia bonus, forcing me to waste a deployment in Pakistan to attack Iran. The hidden deployment also let me increase my orders to attempt a full attack against myself in Malaysia. The misinformation chatter was my spies sowing confusion in the local populace to elicit false confidence in their military leaders so my full attack would be near perfect strategy vs confused strategy. You always have a happy ending when you play with yourself.
gui: 9/17/2015 00:47:41


Ragnarok
Level 66
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I have to admit. His strategy against Motd is the most brilliant thing I've ever seen in a strategic 1v1 game. And it's not like he did it against some random guy, motd is one of the best players I know.
gui: 9/17/2015 01:36:38


Strategos
Level 54
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vs motd: Warlord locations were good for that. Top players seem to have group think and become top players by observation and imitation, very few create. According to group think, a top player must pick the two FTBs, split them both, and have a superior third bonus or superior play/luck to win. I didn't want to play that game of pick lottery and hopefulness.

The board was interesting. If I didn't pick either FTB and the enemy did, he would be confused. South Africa sort of counters Ant. Maybe I'm there...The Africa combo sort of counters Ant, and I had been picking Africa combos more frequently than usual (top players watch recent games of new opponents), so maybe I'm there...Europe, Russia, and Scand all counter that FTB, maybe I'm there...

Ideally, this is what I hoped would happen:

Turn 1: He misses the Ant FTB, maybe because he doesn't deploy fully bc he is already thinking about positioning in Russia/Scand Turn 2.
Turn 2: If he has Scand, he goes full at the territory that touches Russia and Europe, expecting a counter. If he has Russia or Europe (blind counter), he enters Scand hard.
Turns 3-5: At some point he enters South Africa or deploys too much in Africa. Meanwhile I take my third bonus and get into position to begin taking West China.
Mid-Game: By the time I have three bonuses, he has two. By the time he takes his third bonus, I have already begun chipping away at West China and have pressured or busted his second bonus. By the time he starts to recover his senses and regroup, I have taken West China. Efficient, powerful growth (4, 4, 4, 6) with assumed intel vs confused countering attacks/inefficient growth (where is his fourth bonus? South Africa?) with little/no Intel.

The picks flowed from the board's positioning (my third bonus counters his second, West China as my ripe apple to be plucked), my recent picks (Africa combo), and what I could expect from WL's recent derivative group think strategies. I just needed to get "Indonesia" 1st and hope he plays his role in our dance.

Edited 9/17/2015 01:42:50
gui: 9/17/2015 01:40:40


Vernita Green
Level 56
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MotD just played bad. I see absolutely no reason why he shouldn't have gone for Brazil hard instead of poking all kinds of weird places. He had an ftb and failed to capitalize on it by not expanding smartly.

Edited 9/17/2015 01:44:47
gui: 9/17/2015 01:48:44


USA Biches
Level 61
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mind blown....
gui: 9/17/2015 02:04:25


Strategos
Level 54
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Vernita is right. But confusion breeds inefficiency and mistakes. When I was not playing WL for a while, I would occassionly (once or twice a month) look at ladder games of top players. I was surprised by the amount of mistakes, inefficient play, and derivative myhandish passivity.

Derivative Myhandish passivity was developed in our 3v3 Europe games. In general, there are three ways to bust an opponent: (1) Overwhelm him with superior numbers (early or late, depending on the situation), (2) outflank him for positioning (heavy or light), (3) outdelay him and hit him light (passive, defensive) or heavy (aggressive, offensive). In most situations, Myhand often prefered to use prediction and delays to attack light and maintain his original positioning. Coupled with strong picks and play leading up to that moment, it is a strong approach.

But derivative myhandish passivity often lacks the complementary picking and strong play of myhand. It delays because it is fashionable. And it delays in situations where superior force and prediction would be better. "Oh, I don't know what the enemy will do, I'll just delay as much as I can and attack with a 2v1, hoping for the best. At least I won't waste too many armies or lose positioning." True. But sometimes you can tell what the enemy will do and a full attack (early or late, dependding on the situation) is better than a late attack that is light or not heavy enough.

Momentum (large numbers of troops flowing toward where they are most useful/powerful) and maintaining the initiative (or maintaining pressure) do not always accompany derivative myhandish passivity. It is great if you have superior positioning and income or expect to have these advantages in the future. But it won't lead you too far along the path to get there if it is an uphill climb.

Lastly, people seem to revert to this approach more due to imitation (others do it, so it must work) and lack of better options rather than based on in-game exigencies. That is, in many cases it is more fashionable than necessary or useful. Form > Content.

Edited 9/17/2015 04:19:53
gui: 9/17/2015 03:33:42


Strategos
Level 54
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vs Angry Bird and braw: I watched some of their games. They are growers, not busters. So I assumed I could be a grower and not a buster against them and win: use their approach, but do it better.

I misplayed vs Angry Bird: I entered Greenland a turn early, had 1 army too few with my blockade. But he isn't a buster so the 11 blockade turned out to be enough. And I knew his moves and that he had no leftovers in "Indonesia," so I thought I could get my fourth bonus almost as soon as he could get "SE Asia." I was wrong. But his picks and play weren't enough.

After he couldn't bust me in Russia, I decided the only way he could win was if he sent his big army north to get positioning on my 4 bonus while he deployed in Middle East to get closer to income parity. I played the final turn according to what his best long-term interests were (grow in Middle East), so I didn't want his big army in Brazil to escape a massive hit (Napoleonic warfare: destroy the enemy's big army and the land is yours). Even if he bust me in Russia, the income disparity goes from 21v16 to 17v12 and he'd require a full deployment in SA just to blockade something (I had a winning strategy in mind for that eventuality, enabling me to gain SA's 4 income). I don't lose late game when my income is more than yours. 17v12 is gg. But he slow-played me as if he had an income advantage, the initiative or growth options. Same effect. Game over.

Brah is especially unorthodox with his picks and play. So I picked Africa to counter one possible strategy he might consider. He loves combos and Africa. Then I just assumed he would grow, not attack me when he should, and eventually make a mistake, which I could counter, like how Mayweather boxes. I knew SA and assumed "SE Asia" and East China, so I used the public chat to confuse him. I stated a fact and made it appear as if I had him countered. I was hoping that would slow down his growth. It seems to have worked: he froze in Asia turn 1, froze in "Indonesia" turn 2. I think he assumed I had Burma... Thankfully, my failed 3v2 set him up for a KO punch: I expected him to hit the 1 neutral somewhat hard, leaving Brazil open for business. "Make noise in the east and strike in the west" -- more ancient Chinese philosophy of war.

vs Summer: She picks in a creative way and plays with a little Zaeban in her. I assumed that if I had more solid starts, she wouldn't be able to outplay me late. Once I busted her I went on cruise control: grew, maintained positioning, didn't care too much about what she was doing because eventually she would be overwhelmed by income and positioning. I made a mistake in Georgia: I rushed my orders and sent a 3v2 with a transfer only 1 (trying to save armies) instead of deploying the same amount but having two 2v2s. I was upset with myself and had to waste an OP card to have better odds of getting the territory, since I could smell her in the vicinity.

vs Klof? (early game) I thought I was dealing with an idiot. He hit a 4 neutral in a strange way, so I assumed he was a walkover. But maybe he used an ancient Chinese military stratagem: "feign insanity to overcome the enemy." I played vanilla for a while until he showed me his thought process: he is a running-grower. He runs lightly to superior positioning to maintain strategic pressure and grows elsewhere to be able to use the positioning and income as leverage. Once I figured out his strategic logic I adapted and adjusted my play accordingly. As his income grew his running became heavier, which surprised me somewhat. But by that point he didn't have any real advantages so it was only a matter of time before he got outplayed. Then, once I got near his bonuses, I decided to pull out a mirror from my toolbox: I imitated his running approach to beat him with his own style! That was the closest I came to losing, because his stupidity vs a 4 neutral momentarily gave me false information about his strategic logic and ability.

Edited 9/17/2015 04:49:20
gui: 9/17/2015 09:14:29


Pink 
Level 60
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just looked at the game with flefaz... he amde some really odd moves, but on the other hand he also makes some interesting moves... its hard to undestand how far is he a decente player or someone who plays in such na odd way that he can confuse the opponent
gui: 9/17/2015 10:09:13


Verzehrer 
Level 60
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It's fascinating how qui uses to analyze his opponents' playing style thoroughly when encountering them. Quite some effort put into that, put it seems to pay off in quite an impressive way.
gui: 9/17/2015 10:11:52


master of desaster 
Level 65
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Looks like gui knows other players style better than themself :D
gui: 9/17/2015 12:17:10


Fleecemaster 
Level 59
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This is the sort of style I like to play, which is nice to see cos that gives me confidence that it does actually work. It's nice to watch too, different to the usual FTB and counters.
gui: 9/17/2015 15:50:43


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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I just had a similar game with Timi on the ladder (with my alt). Trouble is I missed the 3v2 on the FTB so he wasn't actually behind to start, plus had the lack of intel on my part to his advantage.
gui: 9/29/2015 18:38:33


Strategos
Level 54
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Other ways to win:

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=9461524
Use cards: reinforcement, blockade, +2 in card pieces.

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=9546808
Use settings: He thought it was the old settings. Old picks/play < New picks/play.

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=9460579
Use early aggression + 3-bonus combo ("SE Asia" or Scand, ambiguous in case he is reading): I cleared "Indonesia" from "Australia" turn 3 with full (turn 1), nearly full (turn 2, I got 3 bonus with a 3v2), and full deployments (turn 3). Game is over.

Edited 9/29/2015 18:48:45
gui: 10/7/2015 17:55:11


Strategos
Level 54
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As I get closer to 20 wins I am losing interest in my games. But it seems casual play is good enough to squeek out wins.

The run should be done soon, allowing me to focus my limited.playing time on team games.

20-0 or bust.
gui: 10/7/2015 17:57:29


master of desaster 
Level 65
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Good luck!
I think the ladder is perfect for runs now. After 20 games the template might already get boring anyway
gui: 10/7/2015 18:06:30


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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Yeah, MotD had a bad turn 3, but I have bad turns reaching for intel at times too. But in that game, I don't understand why you would not grab SA and then reach. Since he got the FTB, he should be ahead to start out even if he is surprised on turn 3 if Gui showed up.

Anyway, love the different strategy usage. I adapt some, but certainly not to this degree, and not that often on picking (using my adapting is on moves).
gui: 10/7/2015 18:10:52


Strategos
Level 54
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I was planning on hanging around to play 2 and eventually 1 game at a time. But with this new template, the games are most enjoyable when you play casually and find ways to claw back and win or barely outsmart the opponent (or simply lose trying something new or random). But that's what autogames and invitational games ("Hey Qi/Gui, you are my hero! I have all your old account names tattooed on my ass! Can we play a 1v1 game together? It would mean so much to me!") are for.

Not taking SA was odd. I guess he got excited about channeling his inner Zaeban. But I was supposed to pick his picks and do the dance. So not doing that must have given him a confused, lonely or spooked feeling, as if I truly was a gui ÚČ╝ haunting him. Games when you get your first three picks and completely.don't expect it can be utterly confusing. And if there are viable options and combos around every corner, you can get jumpy.

Anyway, I feel that ratings are rather inflated. The rating-skill ratio seems to be a bit off. Many top players use picking patterns and moves from turns 1 through 5 to coast to wins. But when they are in deep water and require more craftiness, wiles, technique,and strategic foresight, they allow supposedly weaker players to keep the game close or pull off the upset. The new template merely reinforces this tendancy: pick well, know.what to.do turns 1-5 before the game really starts, and you win. This is anti-fun.

Edited 10/7/2015 18:25:56
gui: 10/7/2015 18:52:59


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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Yeah, I am in that situation a lot vs noobs, but don't panic. Usually you can outplay them without the intel anyway. But against you, I would be worried for sure.

I have not played on the ladder yet, too busy to crunch numbers there when I am playing all 3 sides of 3v3 ladder right now, plus 6 clan league games to pick on right now (plus I left the seasonal a few days prior and it still gave me games/auto joined me, so I am playing those now). But I do look forward to attempting a run on the new 1v1 ladder.
gui: 10/22/2015 12:37:40

Qi 
Level 55
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gui: 10/22/2015 14:19:25

Quicksand 
Level 60
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liol
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