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The Real Time Cup: 8/31/2015 13:49:25


szeweningen 
Level 60
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Hello,

Looking at how rt ladder is looking nowadays and how inactive people are I've decided to try and make an event that'll give incentive to play the ladder. I'll sponsor the event giving 1000 coins to the winner and 500 coins to the runner up, but let us look at some of the rules.

The event will be an 8 player tournament consisting of first a group stage going into semifinals and into finals. Groups will be played in a rr format and semifinals and finals will be best of 5 1v1 events that'll be played real time. I'll supply a 9 template pool ahead of time and players will veto the consecutively picking 3 templates of their choosing. Ideally the final stage will be streamed, but here is the catch, you have to qualify for the event. How? There are 2 ways:
1) win 1 out of 2 qualification rt tournaments that'll be WGL events
2) play on rt ladder!

Before the event starts I will post a specific time frame of probably 2 months where people on rt ladder will accumulate points for places. Basically every day you are in top 20 of rt ladder you get points for a specific place you have, meaning 20 points for places 1-2, 18 points for places 3-4, 16 points for places 5-6 etc.. Over the time of 2 months 6 people who accumulate most points in that way, qualify for the event. Basically you not only have to have high rating, but also be active. This way I'd want to introduce the community to grinding the ladder, sth that was rarely seen in the past. Of course there would be a few rules like if you have ever used more than 1 account on rt ladder, you have to stard your grind with the account you have the worst rating with, otherwise it'd be unfair towards other players. Still you'd have time to grind the ladder long before the event starts so even if you have a bad alt you'd have to confirm it beforehand and repair your rating. Using a fressh leveled account is also ok as long as you announce it ahead of time (meaning announcing the account before you start grinding). Of course using multiple accounts during the event is forbidden.

I'll make the rules more specific later when I see what the community thinks and if there's even enough motivation for players to do that.

Edited 8/31/2015 13:53:00
The Real Time Cup: 8/31/2015 13:58:30


Potatoe
Level 57
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I would like to participate.

Edited 8/31/2015 14:02:55
The Real Time Cup: 8/31/2015 14:09:29


Beren • apex 
Level 63
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I'd play.
The Real Time Cup: 8/31/2015 14:13:49


[WM] Gnuffone 
Level 60
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i'm in
The Real Time Cup: 8/31/2015 14:19:37


powerpos
Level 48
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Looks well thought-out.
Maybe i will participate if i 'm active/online when it starts.
The Real Time Cup: 8/31/2015 14:22:06


Master Ryiro 
Level 62
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i'm in
but....
the rt ladder is not working since yesterday
The Real Time Cup: 8/31/2015 14:23:50


szeweningen 
Level 60
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You can also post suggestions to maybe change the formula, maybe you'd want 3 months of rt ladder? Or maybe 3 qualification wgl open tournaments? Or maybe you think it makes sense to give points for more than top 20? It's still only an idea so feel free to give feedback.
The Real Time Cup: 8/31/2015 14:28:47


Master Ryiro 
Level 62
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how about if you make it such that points gained are proportional to the activity of players as well.
else,rank 1 player can just sit on rank 1 playing 1 game in every 3 days forever

Edited 8/31/2015 14:29:05
The Real Time Cup: 8/31/2015 14:31:51


szeweningen 
Level 60
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1 game every 3 days is still 30 games assuming he has the best rating already. If you have a specific suggestion on how to promote activity wihtout it being abusive I'm all ears. If you have a way so that massing games won't be abusive, but very small activity will be very lightly penalised I'd be inclined to put that into rules.
The Real Time Cup: 8/31/2015 14:32:56


Krzysztof 
Level 66
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someone said coins? $_$

how about if you make it such that points gained are proportional to the activity of players as well.
else,rank 1 player can just sit on rank 1 playing 1 game in every 3 days forever


agree
The Real Time Cup: 8/31/2015 14:35:18


Krzysztof 
Level 66
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1 game every 3 days is still 30 games assuming he has the best rating already. If you have a specific suggestion on how to promote activity wihtout it being abusive I'm all ears. If you have a way so that massing games won't be abusive, but very small activity will be very lightly penalised I'd be inclined to put that into rules.

point for every won game, but no more than 3 points per day.
edit:
well, maybe something like 'no more than 20 points per week' as people don't play every day

Edited 8/31/2015 14:36:43
The Real Time Cup: 8/31/2015 14:35:56


Strategos
Level 54
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Count me out. Too many guys grinding together.
The Real Time Cup: 8/31/2015 14:41:26


szeweningen 
Level 60
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point for every won game,


That is easily abusive, because 3 wins vs 1500 players are far less impressive than 1 win vs a 2000 player. I still want to ensure that the best player by skill is rewarded.

Edited 8/31/2015 14:41:37
The Real Time Cup: 8/31/2015 14:46:48


Master Ryiro 
Level 62
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if total points gained=(points gained as per your rank on that day) + k[f(x,y)]

where x and y can be such that
x=rating of player you defeated on ladder
y=(something like 100-rank of that player if you use multiplication,or rank of player if you use something like x/y)
k=appropriate constant of proportionality
The Real Time Cup: 8/31/2015 14:53:23


Don [ Ω ]
Level 62
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In :-)
The Real Time Cup: 8/31/2015 14:53:49


master of desaster 
Level 65
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I think i might participate. I didn't play rt ladder for ages due the few weak templates on it.
The Real Time Cup: 8/31/2015 15:02:49


Ω Cat Juggernaut 
Level 59
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Might try for the WGL tourneys, can't do RT ladder enough. (College life sucks :P)
The Real Time Cup: 8/31/2015 15:29:32


Beren • apex 
Level 63
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Maybe something like this:

D = a*P + b*sum(R)

D: points for this ranking per day
a, b: proportionality constants
P: points Warlight gives you based on your ladder rank - (31 – rank) ^ 3 * 0.6 + 1000
R: the rating of each player that you beat that day

We want to reward excellence, but there should be a benefit to playing more if the goal is to increase activity on the ladder. We can tweak the constants a & b to give the results that are desired.

And personally I'd be in favor of only allowing main accounts, rather than having people play with their lowest ranked account, but then I don't like alts being around on ladders anyway.
The Real Time Cup: 8/31/2015 15:40:42


ps 
Level 60
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i like the idea of a cup out of the realtime ladder top.

not sure if you're not over complicating organizational efforts though.

why not just announce the date you'll take look at the realtime ladder ranking and grab the top players then?

is the final cup tournament supposed to be realtime or multiday? dont see how you'll manage to get all folks online on specific days for it to be realtime.

i don't really like the RR idea, would prefer double elimination tournament, RR is easy for people who give up half way through to screw up winning chances for others.

you mention multiple templates, i'm guessing you'll be creating the tournament in the most voted one? or doing multiple rounds on the most voted ones? the later would be more interesting measure of skill (and make more sense to use the RR) but on the other hand it would also take shitloads more time to finish assuming vacations are honored.
The Real Time Cup: 8/31/2015 16:00:53

Quicksand 
Level 60
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I am in :P
The Real Time Cup: 8/31/2015 16:12:56

Faller
Level 5
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Very good idea to get a lot more people playing on the rt ladder.
ps I think he is trying to get sustained play on the ladder, over 2 months instead of just insane amounts of activity the day before, which is what I think could happen with your
method.
Krzchyu states a good point, you could play 1 game every 3 days which would give you a lot of points without it changing much over time. However I think maybe instead of giving a point for each game won. What about every week the points you would have "earnt" for you positions in the top 20 each day you must win 10 games to "bank" those points during the week. And if you don't then you only get a percentage of the points you "earnt" from your positions? Doesn't give points for beating weak players, still points for being at the top, but it means you have to have a high level of activity to keep the rankings changing constantly with the consistent best at the top.
The Real Time Cup: 8/31/2015 17:12:15


USA Biches
Level 61
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im in! (:
The Real Time Cup: 8/31/2015 17:19:45


szeweningen 
Level 60
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@Beren
That is a bit closer to a sensible solution. I'll give it more thought on how to promote activity. Ideally I'd try a solution that'd promote playing more than 1/2-3 days, but will give very slight or no bonuses if you mass games. Also I'll have to think about if the formula is realistic since there are limits to what data I can pull from ladder (if Fizzer helps with this it'll be much easier).

@ps

The overcomplicated rules basically have 2 ideas behind them, first is that holding the top spot for a long period of time os not that easy, second I want more players to play rt ladder (maybe make rt ladder open to everyone Fizzer? it's been slowly abandoned over the past couple of months). Also Since not everyone has the time to play in rt ladder all 3 months straight, I wanted to include some other form of qualification and it feels like an open tournament is a good idea. Still I want to avoid multiday as much as possible so I think a few wgl open live events as qualifiers will allow best players to compete even if they don't want to play rt ladder for whatever reason.

The final tournament I also intend to play rt as a real-time event. About round robin you may be right, the group stage can be even double elimination best of 3 and it wouldn't take a long time, good point about rr mechanics.

About templates I'm always sceptical about community voting on templates since I don't trust general populus to vote on most strategic settings. Qualification tournaments I guess will be all strat 1v1 for simplicity, becasue otherwise people would be unhappy they are playing in qualifiers not knowing the template. For the final stage I'd use a few templates from rt ladder, a few popular ones and 1-2 of my templates to give the map pool and then players could decide by a veto system which templates would they use in a best of 3. I really like how SC2 tournaments are organised in that way and that'll allow for players to pick templates they are strong on or veto those opponents are strong on. Still the template pool is not a big deal for now since it's gonna be a while before the final stage is going to happen.



Ok, so including ps's point about a rr, here is a TL DR version:

3 rt tournaments on strat 1v1 ---> 3 qualified
2-3 month period on rt ladder ---> 5 best long term performing players qualify

8 players randomly seeded into groups A and B
double eliminatin inside groups in best of 3 format
A1 semifinal with B2, B1 semifinal with A2 in best of 3
final best of 5
All tournaments real time, templates in final stage picked by players from a specified template pool.
The Real Time Cup: 8/31/2015 17:58:26


Des {TJC}
Level 58
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Aaaand I'm out. Too many other games going on:p

Edited 9/2/2015 02:33:27
The Real Time Cup: 8/31/2015 18:21:05


INSIDE 
Level 61
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I'll play. Although I don't have very high hopes of making it ^^
The Real Time Cup: 8/31/2015 20:10:25


Master Turtle 
Level 61
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I'm in!


Time to take this ladder seriously!
The Real Time Cup: 8/31/2015 22:43:56

Dom365 
Level 63
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In!
The Real Time Cup: 8/31/2015 23:52:58


AWESOMEGUY 
Level 63
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Count me in as well.
The Real Time Cup: 8/31/2015 23:54:23


Potatoe
Level 57
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Umm.. Guys I think he meant Seasonal...












Haha Head start for me :D
The Real Time Cup: 9/1/2015 01:05:56


hedja 
Level 58
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sounds like a good idea, I'm interested to see what happens with this. Hopefully it's aim of making the rt ladder more active works.
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