@Perrin,

"I don't understand *no fighting-arena* If it's not meant to be used for fighting, why not make the spectators of those fighters just the same territory as the fighter... then the crowds would change as the fight goes, without actually forcing you to attack the fans in order to change the fans to your color.."

Thats exactly what they do... you are mistaken, when someone takes the territory in the arena which is part of the bonus in the stands it changes to their colour, so as you say the crowd changes as the fight goes on, you are mistaken.

I agree however that Fizzer may think what you suggest that its only suitable for one type of gaming, but lets be honest their are lots of maps like that already used so this is not different. Not to mention you could still probably have different types on it based on the settings, self rules and other things.

@DanWL

The circles in the stadium are not random, each one which is connected to a bonus corresponds to a part of the stand, you attain a whole section of a stand you get a bonus, you attain a whole inner circle of a stand and you get another bonus.

I agree their may need some sort of symbol of connection between these two, that's why quoted a suggestion the outline colours be the same to correlate circle to stand.
_______________________________________________________________

Overall theirs a need to perhaps clarify the area's which fighting for territory takes place and where they connect, but not much else is wrong with it awkwardly, you cannot say the side catacombs have to be physically or directionally shown as this map does the same and was passed, https://www.warlight.net/Play?PreviewMap=33722

However on the above linked map, I did spot a key code as it were showing how the city is linked to the city map, maybe this is what is needed between the catacombs and arena??

Overall Fizzer has still been very oblique about how to solve the 'problem' he says their is on this map.

Edited 3/17/2015 07:50:43

Overall Fizzer has still been very oblique about how to solve the 'problem' he says their is on this map.

this was true for me in the past. email him and ask him directly, but be nice.

Thanks Arminius!

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If you click this link: https://www.warlight.net/SinglePlayer?PreviewMap=41413 (same like above) please don't use your professionally view, but mind the simple information you'll get.

Click on a circle-Territory within a Bonus (marked with a darker hexagon-background). You will notice that the circle-Territory becomes blue (because you selected it) and the circle-Territories around becomes yellow (because they are connect to your selected Territory). Now don't click anywhere else and take a look to the Stadium ranks. One rank became blue, too (because your selected circle-Territory is combined with this territory!) And some ranks became yellow. In fact, they are not connect to the blue rank, because they are combined with the Bonus-Circle-Territories which border to your selected circle-Territory.

Take the famous Medium-Earth-Map: Ireland is part of the territory "United Kingdom". Say you showed a picture of "Medium Earth" to a WarLight player who has never seen it before, pointed at Ireland, and asked them, "What territories does this connect to?". Maybe some will answer: "This territory connect to "United Kingdom" because there are no visible connections between Ireland and France, Germany or Iceland. But if this guy play the Map, he will recognize immediately that Ireland and United Kingdom is one and the same Territory. Because they become the same color and only one Territory contains the Center Point which shows the Number of Troops. And only from this point possible Attacks are shown with that red and blue arrows (like on my Map).

And I bet, 95% Warlight player will recognize the concept of my map at the latest after turn 3.

If they don't? So what! They rate the map 1/5. And soon the Map will disappear on the Map-cemetery beneath the 3.0 Rating where only Lottery survives.

I will add some more explanations on the Map. And I hope this new and not usually (but playable) Idea will get a chance. It's no problem, if you hate the Idea, but mind that the 100th Map of Europe will become boring, too.

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Edit:

Hey, Bane! This is my mail that Fizzer answered with my posting above:

Hallo Fizzer!

I receive following message answering my last try publishing the Map https://www.warlight.net/SinglePlayer?PreviewMap=41413:
All territory connections must be visible on the map. In other words, it must be possible for a reasonable person to determine what territories exist and what they connect to just by looking at the map.
Please allow me to ask for a concrete requirement.

· Should I connect the Circles in the Hexagons (Arena) visibly?
· The Gates in the Arena and in the Catacombs are one divided territory. Should I connect them visibly?
· The Stands are no fighting-arena. They are part of the bonus-territories in the arena. The Idea is that the spectators become fans of a player, symbolized by becoming his color. - I know, this is a new feature that didn't use in any Map before. But in Testgames the players understood the concept without explaining.
· Or is it the connection between the gates and the first two hexagons in the arena?

Please excuse my misunderstand.

greetings
eliod

Edited 3/17/2015 14:27:34

@Eliod,

The darker shades have improved it to show difference but its still so close to the other colour you can barely see its different.

The Yellow and blue does help a lot showing which is part of the territory and what it is connected to.

However what my point was that in this map, https://www.warlight.net/Play?PreviewMap=33722, in the top left corner you have a guide to how the territory's for cities are connected, in this map the gate both in arena and catacomb are one territory this makes it much easier to play but maybe less easy to understand?

I say wait until Fizzer reply's to you.

good luck

ahh, I see.
I misunderstood when I was looking at it, ahah.
yeah, the problem must be in Fizzers mind the entrance to the pit.. however that is fairly intuitive if you just spend a moment examining it.

and that kind of cancels out the custom scenario.. I was thinking because it had special rules to follow for those territories, but it would be natural ... It's really no different than a map with 4 strong starting spots that go out into a mass area to combat.

maybe invite him to a test game so he can see how natural it flows?

Getting it after turn 3 is no good. People need to understand what connects without playing a game on it.

@Chris, now we are just discussing the basic level of intelligence someone needs to comprehend a clear connection, I'm sure you as I have played plenty of games with people not seeing how something connects to another thing but you saw it easily at the start.

Edited 3/17/2015 15:38:28

Fizzer has a point here.

No, the connections are very messed up in addition to not being clear. For example, click Tribunes III. It connects to II and I but not IV. That makes no sense. Same with Equites III. If you don't want III and IV connected, make a wall there. Censors II and III connect but not I and II.

I get that there is a certain way the maker wants this to flow, but I would quit turn 1 because I'd have to spend forever clicking all over to comprehend the map. Look at the things I posted, they are not even consistent, so learning the 'pattern' is pointless. Maybe if you had a symbol at each end of the connections, then you could tell where they went.

Lower plebeians is equally confusing. And why are Lower Plebeians above Plebeians on there? That makes no sense to me either (why is it not called Upper?). If it is based on class structure, call it "Lesser" and not "Lower". I just think it has so much potential based on the looks, but the connections are a mess.

Edited 3/17/2015 15:58:32

BTW, I think the gates are fairly easy to understand (although again a symbol on the gate for each gladiator would help a lot). The issues I see are all within the arena itself.

THANK YOU (!!!) Perrin3088 for your second view and for your understanding! And thank you for your additional and correct explaining! Your Tips are worthy and I will try to transpose them. And thank you as well for protecting me from a heart attack! :)

Hey ChrisCMU! You designed Maps, too. And surely you know the meaning of setting the center point. - There is no center point in the ranks. It's just a visual effect. And - to be true - it has no use but maybe creating a bit fun. You can play and win a match without spending a single look into the ranks. Yes, it's not necessary for gaming. But it's also not necessary to create a game board looking like the earth. It's enough to make squares. But it feels better to conquer the world, than to conquer squares.
The point "lower plebeians" is yours. It based in fact on class structure. I will follow your argument and change that point. Thank you!

Not sure where you are coming from at all on the world vs squares. I never said anything bad about the concept (I complimented the way it looks many times). I'm just saying connections need to be obvious (depicted or implied) and yours are not. Since your connections go across other territories, I would not recommend throwing lines on there. I would instead put a symbol that depicts the connections. For example, why not take your gladiator polygons (like Murmillo for example), shrink that down and combine/union to a single polygon. Then place that small 'symbol' on the wall in the arena (next to the gate) and also on the left hand side where the gate enters the area under the stands. Then you are giving a clue where that goes without drawing connecting lines. You can do this for all non-obvious connections.

If you don't, you'll never get this past testing.

You should listen to Fizzers' advice ;)

First, this map looks amazing

I don't think the Arena itself is a problem, the issue (imo) is the gates. One possibility is to some description explaining it (either pictures or text), another is arrows (or smt similar) but that'd look ugly. I'm sure there's a elegant solution.

PS.
You're not the first to use this "coloring in players color" trick, other maps already have it. For example https://www.warlight.net/Play?PreviewMap=11033 the territories color the words. However I've not seen one done as well as yours.

lovely idea with the cheering crowd as a visual effect :)

guess it works for 4ffa, 2v2 or 1v1


i don't see where the problem in understanding the connections is :/

Sometimes you'll need other players to see the problem why you're map is rejected.
I agree that you cannot see which territories connect to eachother (VERY confusing map)
I had the same problem with my map Narnia: https://www.warlight.net/Map/15724-Narnian-World
The Entrance to the Underlands was not clear. I made 2 blue lines and some text to make the connection more clear. The star and the sphere are 1 territory in this case.

Remove the connections, make only logical connections and then try again. You've made a pretty artistic work.

Personally I think that map is pretty confusing, it's just a shame it gets completely rejected because of that. I felt the same way with zxctycxz's first map which is almost the biggest world map on warlight, but won't be excepted because the territories are a bit too small.

Edited 4/6/2015 16:19:08

Some users of this Thread understood the principle of the Map, some not. The discussion proves me that I am not able to explain it to the necessary 95%. (If you really interested to understand the simplicity behind the first confusing sight, ask for a test game.)

The concept of "coloring in players color" (thanks Hennns for showing that the idea is not as new as I thought!) is the basic idea of the Map. The insight that I have to mutilate the idea for getting public is like stomach pain.

The project is an cooperative work with Vitrix Mortalis. That's the only reason for me to make the necessary cuts to make the Map public.