Oh, just like y'all keep a confirmed, unapologetic ladder cheater (who kept going after being confronted and informed about it until he was called out in public twice) in your clan? And not just in your clan, but maxxed out in your Clan League team. Turns out if you pretend to apologize and just say "I'll never do it again," Fizzer lets you off with a warning and your clan decides it'd rather take in those extra Clan League points at no cost to its reputation than actually police its members and have at least a little bit of ethics.

Don't throw rocks if you live in a glass house.

In either case, this thread isn't about Ox or your opinion of him. It's about a case of obvious stalling that's gonna go unresolved, allowing MisterT to win the seasonal ladder and later come up with some excuse ("oh I was on vacation") after which no one will ask any questions because he's an elite player and in |GG| and people don't like getting shit on by elitists while not actually getting Fizzer to do anything about ladder cheating on this site. And ofc, if someone brings it up a month from now, some other person will talk about all these other cases of ladder cheating that were never dealt with- so why should we deal with this one? Or any one?

It's not just M'Hunters. The mainstream strat community of this site has through inaction lost any credibility it has when it talks about preventing ladder cheating.

It says a hell of a lot about this site when someone brings up a case of stalling and the immediate responses they get are personal attacks on them.

Edited 7/14/2016 22:55:22

Ah, there was his mail:

"hi there... i'm just interested to see which players have other accounts in elite clans because I want to get to know warlight better, is it true you are [...] ^_^ if so, then pretty damn impressive, and congrats on 2k in the ladder btw!"

I believe everyone can judge for themself if this is "honorable policeman work" or "dirty snitch work". Enough said on my part, OxTheAutist's words speak for themself. My only advice for everyone is to stay away from him, else he will turn you in. What was spoken in private he will shout from the rooftop.

Edited 7/14/2016 23:04:27

Like I said, it says a lot that this community would attack Ox and ACL Tears instead of actually tackling the issue.

Well it is a strategy game and that seems like a smart strategy:D sadly it is not against to rules.

Edited 7/15/2016 11:10:50

I don't agree

Edited 7/15/2016 11:11:17

2d15h now

Last seen 3 hours 19 minutes ago

He's clearly able to take the turn, given that he's in only 9 ongoing multi-days. He's been online probably at least half a dozen times since that turn started. And yet he chose not to take it. Clear-cut stalling here.

Edited 7/15/2016 11:11:04

@Tabby: Yes. Stalling (in the context of cheating/abuse) is different from delaying. You can delay Clan League games where you're losing, for example, but the only advantage you get is saving face.

What? It ended early?

As far as I can tell he had the advantage the whole time.

The way I see this is he either showed you that 2 can play the game of stalling (rightly or wrongly thinking that you were, I'm personally not inclined to think you were stalling since you are widely known to be a very slow player no matter the circumstances) or he just didn't wanna be arsed after being ignored by you.

I do however agree with others that something should be done about stalling as you can't really expect people not to use the advantage if it's there, no matter the etiquette or ethics of it. Systemic solution needed, as always.

Edited 7/15/2016 02:32:00

Realistically, Fizzer won't solve the problem anytime soon or take care of it in the near future if he hasn't done much about it in the past.

Either we say that stalling is okay and openly condone it as a community. Or we actually oppose cheating in the community.

Daddy Fizzer won't take care of everything, so you can't keep shoving off that responsibility to him while you take advantage of him not doing anything. It doesn't even take the whole community to make a meaningful difference- literally just one or two people to start things. If ChrisCMU cared, for example, he could bar known cheaters from competing in Clan League. If Norman or M'Hunters cared, they could, for example, not allow known cheaters to represent them in Clan League (or even- *gasp*- actually disavow them and remove them from their clan since they clearly seem to have high standards). If CORP cared, they could kick out a known coin cheater from their leadership.

But of course M'H would rather enjoy the extra edge they get from maxxing out AI, CORP still wants to keep Death around, and we're all totally cool with Gnuffone now. Because our principles matter less to us than the points in a contest. That's why baseball players take steroids- fuck it if I'm gonna ruin the sport for everyone, I'd rather get those extra home runs and have a shot at the World Series. That's why Olympians dope- a gold medal will get you a lot more cheering and a lot more money than keeping your principles and your sport intact. Cheating happens because it's profitable and because people respect winning more than they respect the game.

The thing is no one cares enough to take any sort of action where they'd suffer the tiniest loss in the name of the principles they care to stand for. It's like talking about how big of a problem AIDS is while doing nothing about it. Just go ahead and admit you don't really care.

Edited 7/15/2016 03:14:40

MisterT had better chances of winning, he diserved his victory and to win the seasonal.

he should prove it by playing it out from that exact scenario in a custom scenario game

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT

His win wasn't yet locked in. For him to stall and guarantee it at probably the most crucial turn in the game doesn't make it a deserved victory at all. It's abuse, plain and simple, abuse to eliminate the last possible threat he faced instead of actually playing out the game and building more than just a 1 army/turn income advantage.

Then again, I wouldn't expect a better response from |GG|. Like I said, no one's gonna call out a cheater if it goes against the interests of their clan.

Edited 7/15/2016 03:33:33

It's arbitrary. I have no horse in that race (pun maybe intended) and I don't see it the way you do. It sucks but unless Fizzer has systemic solution, there will be no solution.

Taking away the possibility for abuse is the only way to stop the abuse. Not the reward, not the punishment.

That's exactly why God had to come back and make doping physically impossible. Otherwise we wouldn't have been able to take any action against it ourselves.

And yet you have Armstrongs and Sharapovas over and over again.

Just because people slip through the system doesn't mean you stop caring about ethics. You're not going to catch every murderer, but that doesn't mean you suddenly make murder legal.